New Shop Construction

[Kris Cook]

I didn't get any responses to the previous question but it's just as well as I have changed the plan slightly. I am going to build the doors with 2"x4"s planed down to 3" wide and they will be on edge. The finished doors will be 4-1/4" thick.

I am planning for the doors to seal on the inside faces, and will likely have an astragal on the outside as well, so I am not too worried about getting a good seal. I just don't want to make the gap between the doors any wider than necessary, and would rather not angle the inside frames.

Does anyone know a good rule of thumb to use (that doesn't require trigonometry ) to figure out what the gap can/should be between the doors so they will close properly? I want to be able to open/close them independently. The doors will each be 36" wide.

[Kris Cook]

I ended up using a trammel compass to describe a 36" arc on a piece of cardboard, and decided 1/4" between the doors should give me adequate clearance.


Here is a start on the doors. I am planning to match somewhat these doors which will be in the adjacent garage bay.
Midland Long Panel Carriage.jpg

frames are Doug Fir 2x4's on edge, and planed down to 3" width.

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Finally used the pocket hole jig I have had for quite a while. Seemed like a good application.

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Doors are skinned on the inside with 3/8" AC plywood. Glued with construction adhesive and stapled (gave me an excuse to buy a narrow-crown stapler)

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Caulking around frame before insulation

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2 layers of 1.5" blue board - should be good for R-15

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Planed some more 2 bys and re-sawed to 3/4" thick.

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These will be the exterior face trim (fake rails and stiles). I was going to run them through the planer after sawing but I think they are smooth enough as is.

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The exterior skin will be 3/8" Dura Temp plywood siding with v-grooves on 4" centers. The face trim will go over the siding. This will give me a close enough match to the steel overhead door.

I still need to face the door edges before I put the face trim on. Unfortunately, the width will be 3-3/4" which means I can't use a 2x4. I was thinking of ripping down 2x6's to 3-3/4" and then re-sawing them to 3/4" but I have some 4/4 cedar that is wide enough to use. I am still wondering if cedar will hold up in the long term though. The boards I am referring to would not have the corners exposed, just one face - They will be painted as will the rest of the door.

[Jim Becker]

Those doors are going to look great!

Once you get the trim on the outside, be sure you caulk the areas where the v-grooves on the panels meet the trim pieces. You might also consider a small triangular piece on top of the horizontal trim pieces (small and unobtrusive) to insure moisture drains away, too. Easy to create them on the saw by ripping edges of boards with the blade at an angle.

[Kris Cook]

Jim - excellent input. Thank you for that. I was concerned about the gap behind the trim, and will likely employ the triangle fillet idea. Probably better to divert the water than to rely on caulking alone.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, in an outdoor application, deflection of water is a really good thing...

[Kris Cook]

I am building two swing-out doors in my smaller garage door opening. When the slab was being poured, the finisher cut down the approaches to both door openings. I almost had them fill it back in to maintain a flat surface all the way to the edge. I really wish I had done that.

In the sketch below you can (hopefully) see what I am talking about.

I want to be able to seal the door with a "kerf-in" type sweep that need to press against a horizontal surface (threshold). I have drawn in purple the approximate shape of what the threshold would have to look like.

I plan to keep a 4-wheeler in this bay during the winter and I would rather have a tapered approach inside and out but I don't see a way to do that without something laying on the gravel beyond the slab.

Any suggestions?

[Jim Becker]

For an area like that you could consider putting up a form on the outside that has it's top level with the shop floor and pour some concrete to do what you described was an option during the original poor. Yes, you'll see it was added, but it will be concrete. That kind of small area is pretty easy to do even for someone who doesn't have experience with doing concrete work. There would be a little bump getting the ATV in and out of there which it will most certainly not mind and you could simplify the door bottom and use a replaceable, flexible weather seal. This, of course, just an alternative to the added formed threshold you show in your sketch.

[Kris Cook]

Thanks Jim. I was just looking on the JLC forum and saw others with a similar challenge where the consensus seemed to be what you are describing.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have lots of experience with concrete patching (I built swimming pools in my younger days - no, not in Montana)

I guess I hate to patch a brand new slab but I think you are probably right. Will have to wait until things warm up around here though. I may do something temporary in the interim as I was hoping to get these doors hung in the next week or two.

Haven't made any progress on the building for a few weeks due to weather, and a few work obligations. Looks like the weather may be starting to break this coming week so hopefully will see some progress.

[Jim Becker]

Tack some lumber milled and shimmed to thickness in there until the weather is amenable to concrete and do your doors.

[Kris Cook]

I think that's a good plan.

[Peter Christensen]

Or you could nail a 2x on the floor inside of the door to act as stop unless the doors have to sit supported on the floor.

[Kris Cook]

Pete - that is a good thought, and one I was going to propose with my original question. The doors shouldn't need the additional support. So, the seal would happen where the inside bottom edge of the door meets the floor?

Part of my dilemma is I haven't quite figured out how I am going to seal the doors vertically where they come together. I want to put cane bolts at top and bottom of each door which coupled with an astragal on one door face should give me a decent latch, and seal. Alternatively, I could put in a wood threshold (either under the door or behind as you suggest) and, and then have a removable post with weatherstripping the doors would close against which would provide a sealing surface for the door edges. Under the second scenario I would probably use the cane bolts as well.

[Dan Hall]

First post.

I'll be following this thread. I'm no stranger to wood working, just a stranger to fine wood working. I suppose I might be a wood butcher. My wife and I are looking at downsizing too. We live in an HOA afflicted community and have not been able to park a car in the garage for many years. That is my goal. We had a half acre with a separate 24' x 36' shop with a 200A service located but heard word that a bid was accepted on the day we were to sit down with our broker. Oh well. We'll find another one. I'm working in the third bay of a three car garage. It's more than cramped, it's unworkable. I do think though that I can do it in a typical two car garage sized building provided the metalworking stuff goes elsewhere. Has anyone seen a text or general guidelines for layout someplace? Maybe I'll check Amazon.

I spent my working life as an electrician with experience from housing to high tech to industrial to the Alaska Pipeline for my final 10 years. There is lots to learn and absorb here. As far as light fixtures go I really like what I"m using now though with LED stuff beginning to prevail I'm not sure they are a still good choice. They really crank out the light. Paint the walls white. That helps too. These fixtures generally go for about $100 per with lamps included. Each lamp puts out 4650 lumens.
Google this for information:6 Lamp T5 HO Fluorescent fixture.

[Kris Cook]

Dan - welcome to the Creek. There are a lot of good folks here.

Not sure what you are looking for as far as guidelines. I have been using Grizzly's free "shop planner" program available on their site. I also have a couple of books I purchased used on Amazon that have been helpful. I can dig up the titles if you are interested.

Maybe post your general location. It can be helpful to you and others.

[John K Jordan]

...I can do it in a typical two car garage sized building provided the metalworking stuff goes elsewhere. Has anyone seen a text or general guidelines for layout someplace? Maybe I'll check Amazon.
tur
...Google this for information:6 Lamp T5 HO Fluorescent fixture.

Hello Dan!

I have no regrets installing T5 fixtures with HO lamps in my shop. I use 4-bulb fixtures and make good use of the feature built into the electronic ballast to turn on just 1/2 of the bulbs in each fixture unless the others are enabled by a separate switch. The fixtures are installed in zones which lets me add more light for certain tasks.

I think the layout of a shop depends mostly on what you will do in the shop, what equipment you plan to use, and the space available. I have a couple of books on small shops that I found helpful.

I was fortunate in that I built my shop from moving the dirt to wiring the the dust collector so I could size the building and plan the layout to suit me. My interest is primarily wood turning but I wanted flat wood space, room for wood drying and storage, a small office/library, weld shop with some outdoor working space, integrated dust collection and compressed air plumbing, a small machine shop, electronics bench, and room for farm maintenance and farm animal care supplies.

I built a 24x62 building which sounds like plenty of space but I still had to carefully plan before building. I filled a notebook with plans and layout variations, slowly converging on a plan. I locked down the layout of the major tools before I finalized the wall, door, window, DC, lighting, and wiring plans. What helped me the most was making a scale drawing of the space on large paper then making cutouts for every space and machine I wanted to include. I could slide these around to try options then tape them in a final configuration. I made circles for minimum and desired walking space between the machines and then moved the circles through the layout. (I walked through an arrangement of large cardboard boxes to determine the spacing I found comfortable.) After a few years of use I'm still quite satisfied with the final layout. The only thing missing is a bathroom and tiny kitchen but I'm planning an addition for when I get enough money saved up!

In case you are interested, here is how I divided the internal space and a photo of one iteration of my paper cutout planning in progress.

shop_floorplan.jpg

layout_paper_2.jpg

My advice is to plan the space carefully before moving in the first tool, including the storage and working space including in- and out-feed space for the types of things you plan to do. Plan dust collection from the start. Space attached to the house needs some special considerations, of course.

So, what kinds of things do want to do in your shop?

JKJ