Minimax fs35 setup and adjustment

[matthew lippel]

Hi All,

This is my first post as any question I've ever have or had has already been discussed at length. So here it goes:

I bought a used Minimax FS35 j/p for 1k. It was in good condition or so it seemed. Tables, relative to themselves were flat (measured with a veritas straight edge) and the machine worked. Short of not having a guard or the jointer dust shoot, it seemed perfectly fine. However I noticed when I started jointing my boards they were coming out convex. I figured the tables needed adjustment. So upon checking I discovered that the tables had sagged as I think one might expect any machine to over time. When I lifted the tables to see how they could be adjusted all I saw were the bolts that held the table in place. As it's not a dovetail or parallelogram bed, I'm not sure how to go about adjusting this to raise the ends. I assume shimming will be in order...but where and how?

Also the outfeed table is off relative to the cutterhead about 0.01" across the width of the jointing bed.

I realize I have a lot of tuning to do but from what I've read this industrial machine should be great and I hope adjustable. It's proving to be exceedingly frustrating.

Thanks all,
Matt

[John TenEyck]

Matt, I have a FS35, too. I didn't have to adjust anything on mine, but you have the right idea about what's required. You have to put shims under the hinges. On the other side there is a big bolt that you need to turn in/out to adjust that side. I would start by making sure your knives are parallel with the head. Then I'd adjust the outfeed table. Get a piece of 1/4" glass and lay it on the outfeed table so that it projects over the knife. Measure how far out it is side to side. You should be able to bring it parallel by turning that big bolt on the swinging side. Once it's parallel you can adjust the entire table to bring at the same height as the knife at TDC using the table elevation lever.

Once the outfeed table is good go to the infeed table. Lay your straightedge across and see where the infeed table needs to be adjusted. If your boards are coming out convex I think you will have to put a shim under the hinge bolt closest to the cutterhead. In any case, after you get the infeed table coplaner on the hinge side you will have to adjust that big bolt on the other side to get that side in line, too.

The hinge bolts can be a real bear to loosen. Mine were embedded with some kind of permanent Loctite type product. I was finally able to get them loose, but I was sweating bullets during the process, praying they wouldn't break or strip the head out. Use extra caution.

John

[John Fenn]

I have the same machine. I bought some brass shims from ebay. It consisted of several sheets of brass with different thicknesses. I then used the shims to tune it up starting with setting the outfeed table closest to the cutting head and then work out from there. I used a dial indicator. Place the shims on the hinges that hold the tables. It took my quite awhile and is somewhat of an trial and error process but I finally got it dialed in and haven't have any problems since. By the way, I also put in a Shelix-head and really like it. Good Luck,

JF

[John TenEyck]

John, does your Shelix head have the Wescott chuck for mortising? I've been thinking of upgrading to a Shelix but I use the mortiser so the head would have to include the chuck.

John

[John Fenn]

It does. I think the chuck is screwed on. When you contact Shelix they have about three different head dimensions. They will forward detailed drawings to you and then you need to verify which one of them matches your machine. I think there is one that is the most common which was the one that fit my machine, but you have to measure yours and compare to the drawings to make sure. It took awhile for the new head to arrive, I think about 6-8 weeks (I really don't remember). They were great to work with. Replacement was relatively easy if you have a way to pull the bearings. I borrowed a gear puller from a local parts store. Replacing the head was much easier than tuning the tables. Like you, I got a good price on the machine and felt the upgrade was worth it compared to a new machine. The dust collection on mine is not the best. I made a hood that connects to the guide/dust hood that swings over the cutterhead when you are in planer mode. It works but not the greatest. Otherwise, a very solid machine and much better than the 6" Sears jointer I have before. I really appreciate the width. I don't know how heavy of a pass mine could do with the old head, but with the new head the passes have to be fairly small about 1mm thick. If you go more, my belt slips and I get some snipe.

I just set my jointer mode on one shallow thickness and never change it. On planer mode I only take 1/2 approximately 1mm thickness. I think part of my limitations relate to the belt that I replaced. I am not sure I got the right one and it seems to slip pretty easy. Also, if I try to take a thicker pass in planer mode, the table underneath seems to have a slight flex to it that causes snipe. If I keep it to the approximate 1mm everything comes off very smooth.

JF

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much John. I'll have to contact Holbren and see about the Byrd head. I think I have a 3 KW motor on my machine, so nominally 4 HP. I've never been able to take off more than about 1/16" (a full turn) in hard wood at full width, and generally only take off about 1/32". I'm OK with that, but it might be even less with a Shelix head. I'm still OK with that.

Here are some photos of the dust collection system I rigged for mine. It's based on a 14" rectangular to 5" round duct transition piece.



In jointer mode the duct is trapped between the planer bed and the infeed table.





In planer mode it fits over the integral chute. There are a couple of piece of wood required to hold it in place, but they go in/out in a couple of seconds.



It takes only a few seconds to hook up with the changeover. I'd say it captures 95%+ of the chips so I'm happy with it. I can send you photos of the wood supports if needed.

John

[matthew lippel]

Thanks for the replies. I took some pictures to help illustrate the problems and also help me to shim precisely.

First things first. I was able to bring the tables on either side to with 0.001" of one another. I temporarily put a 0.014" feeler gauge on top of one of the supports the table rests on (the portion opposite the hinges). Is this the best place to shim? or should I place the shim stock under that support?

IMG_7660.jpg
Next, when I measured at the center I found it to be sagging about 0.005". Is that something I should be worried about? Can the cutterhead sag? I don't believe it's the table as I tested for flatness (see below).

John, what would the glass do if the surface it's registering off of isn't flat? Ride on the high spots? If you think this would help, I'll do whatever you think is best.

Now, while I was able to get the outfeed table relatively level across the cutterhead, I have to worry about getting the beds in plane. How do I raise the back end of the tables? Where do I shim exactly? I provided a picture below.

IMG_7665.jpg
Do I have to shim under here (referring to picture below)?

IMG_7656.jpg

Finally, I noticed that my outfeed table has a 0.004" deviation. Is this concerning? See below for, wait for it, yet, another picture.

IMG_7670.jpg..............IMG_7669.jpg

I'm not even thinking about a Shelix head yet. I just want this baby to cut straight first. The shelix head is a ~1300 upgrade? Worth it? Do you find the shorter beds to be problematic when jointing longer boards? It's really my only hesitation (that and getting it to cut well) when considering a 1300 investment.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your responses. I'm so happy I met people who have this machine, use it, and like it.

[John Fenn]

John, I have a similar hood. However, I think I need to do some tweaking to improve mine.

Matt, I really don't recall a specific way of tuning. I got the out feed table lined up with the cutter head and then went from there. I ended up with shims under both the hinge and handle sides and it seemed any change potentially changed something else. Just take your time. Your picture showing the .004 deviation on the out feed table may be something that is causing you a problem. If I am viewing it properly, it looks like you are referencing from the yellow enclosure. I don't think that is a good reference (maybe I am not seeing it correctly). I don't have a problem with the length. It is what it is. A longer jointer would obviously be nicer but I have not felt the length of the tables to be limiting. For me the shelix head was worth it. Mostly to avoid knife setting issues. I never really set my original knives but the tuning of the tables was challenging enough that I want to take the knife setting out of the equation. I don't remember what the shelix head cost but 1300 sounds about right. It was worth it to me mostly to avoid changing knives. I haven't regretted my decision.

JF

[matthew lippel]

John, I'm not referencing off the yellow portion. That picture where it's off .004 is to show you that the tables aren't flat across it's width. The straight edge is only sitting on the outfeed table itself. I am curious if that makes a difference. At the point of the cutter head, I got that to be level within 0.001".

Also I had a question about the cutterhead deviation in the middle and shimming that would raise the far ends of the table. Not sure how to go about it.

[John Fenn]

If I understand your concerns, the tables individually have some uneveness or twist. I don't think you can do much to fix that without some specialized flattening/lapping. I don't recall mine being off much. I would suggest you get everything as close as you can splitting the deviations where you can. I doubt the deviations will have any practical impact. I certainly would try that before I pursued any efforts to flatten/lap the tables.

The shimming does potentially cause the tolerance at the cutterhead changing, thus the iterative process, I probably spent several hours over a couple days getting mine where I wanted it. After a while, you kind of get a sense of what impact each change will have and then you can kind narrow it down. I hope this helps.

JF

[matthew lippel]

Yeah that makes sense.

But it looks like the table closest to the cutterhead is dead flat according to my straight edge. I only begin to see the 0.004 deviation in the outfeed table towards the back. I can also use a piece of glass at this point or my straight edge to double check, but i believe the cutterhead begins to sag in the middle. By about 0.005". Probably not a death blow.

I'll try and shim the rest of it. I'm going to place more shims towards the back end of the tables to hopefully cant the table. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!

PS. I hate trying to get the cutterheads straight. It's terrible.

[John TenEyck]

Matt, are you sure the tables are dished 0.005"? Can you see light under a straight edge placed across the table? 0.005" isn't great but you own the machine now so it's what you have and it probably won't make much difference. Worst case, you could get he table reground, but I wouldn't even think about that until you have the machine running and use it for a while.

I'll try to describe the tuning again, because I think you are going about it backwards. Start by getting your knives parallel with the cutterhead if they aren't already. Now close the outfeed table and lock it. Place a piece of 1/4" glass on the outfeed table and overhangs the front far enough for the knives to hit it. The glass is dead flat and will bridge over any dish you might have in the table. If the table is bowed high in the center then use two small pieces of glass near the edges of the table. Alternatively, you can use a dial gage that rides on a block of wood so that you can slide it back and forth along the front edge of the outfeed table. In either case, measure the height of the outfeed table in relation to the knives. If you use a dial gage you could reference off the head itself, which might be easier and eliminate any issues with the knives not being perfectly parallel with the head. If the table is not parallel with the knives (or head) at the front and back edge (the middle is irrelevant at this point) then you adjust the handle side to make it parallel. At this point, leave the hinge side alone. On the handle side there is a big bolt under the table that rests on the frame when it closes. You turn that bolt in/out to raise/lower that side of the table. Don't use shims on the handle side, that's what the bolt is for.

Once you have the outfeed table parallel with the knives now close the infeed table, lock it in place, and put a big straight edge down the length of both tables. Check at the hinge side, center, and front side. Raise/lower the infeed table until the straight edge shows the least light underneath at the hinge side. OK, now where are you seeing daylight? If you see no daylight at the hinge side but the handle side shows daylight then you adjust the big bolt under the infeed table to bring that side of the infeed table is in plane with the outfeed table. If that's good and there is still no daylight at the hinge side then you are done. Any daylight you see if you angle the straight edge across the two tables means the tables have a dish or crown or twist in them and there's nothing you can do about that except have them reground.

If the straight edge shows light near the cutterhead then you have to put a shim under the hinge bolt closest to the cutterhead. If it shows light at one or both ends then you have to put a shim under the hinge bolt furthest away from the cutterhead. If you have to put shims under one or both bolts closest to the cutterhead then you automatically know you will have to readjust the big bolt on the handle side of those tables, too. Unless your machine is way out of whack I would keep the adjustments to just one table to reduce the iterations needed to bring the two tables coplaner.

The shim size needed is proportional to how much daylight you are seeing. Measure the distance between the hinge bolts; let's call it 6" for now. Also, put a piece of tape on top of the infeed table and mark the location of the two hinge bolts on the tape. Let's say your infeed table shows daylight at the start of the table. Measure the gap under your straightedge at the start of the table. The shim you need to put under the hinge bolt furthest away from the cutterhead = the measured the distance from the hinge bolt closest to the cutterhead to the end of the table / 6.

Use the same approach if you see daylight near the cutterhead. Let's say you measure 0.005" gap between the straightedge and the infeed table at the hinge bolt location closest to the cutterhead. The shim you need to put under that hinge bolt = 0.005 x 6/the distance from the hinge bolt closest to the cutterhead to the start of the infeed table.

As others said, adjusting the tables is somewhat iterative, but what I've outlined above will make it less so. My last words of advise are don't shim the cutterhead unless there is no other option and, when working on the tables, only shim under the hinge bolts.

John

As far as the table lengths go, I find them to be more than adequate for jointing boards 8' and even longer. They seem infinitely long to me after having an Inca for 25 years which is half the length of the MiniMax.

JOhn

[John Fenn]

I also would avoid shimming the cutterhead. Doing so may effect the planer line up. We have been focusing on the tables for jointer function but remember the cutterhead needs to be parallel with the planer table as well. Mine was and I did not mess with the planer table or cutterhead (other than replacing with a shelix). I am not sure how to even adjust the planer table. However, even as difficult as the jointer tables may be, they appear to be easier than the planer table.

[John TenEyck]

The planer table is bolted to the head of the column with 4 bolts. You can shim under those bolts if required to align it with the cutterhead. That would be a last resort option for me. You have to start with the assumption that the machine left the factory in good alignment. If so, the cutterhead and planer table would be parallel, as would the jointer tables most likely. But if something is likely to be out of whack from the factory or go out during use it's the jointer tables, and that's where I would focus my efforts.

John

[matthew lippel]

Thanks John. I'll let you know how it goes.

Yes I can see light. I also used feeler gauges. I think there's a picture above showing that the table is off.
Also I thought all responses were posted sequentially but I see I missed several. Sorry about that.

Thabks again.