Jumping through hoops

[TAMI WILSON]

My husband refers to it as "The Vending Machine Mentality" All i have to do is stick a quarter in and it comes out. They don't think about the time and energy that goes into making it.
I have simply said to a couple people. Sorry can't do it. next time they were a little more considerate.

[Scott Shepherd]

Had a new customer come in, first time we've ever done stuff for them. Commercial client, large company. He comes to pick the stainless plates up, says "They look great! My boss wanted me to look at your machine and take some photos of it and find out who made it because we are going to get one".

Yeah....no thanks. I'm not going to help you take my work away. You want to get a laser, then do what everyone else does, research, buy, and put years of experience in. Want me to give you that info for free? No thanks.

[Doug Fisher]

Scott, how did you handle breaking the news to the guy that you wouldn't be showing him your machine?

[John C Cox]

To put things into perspective.... 10 years ago - we were a few months away from the cusp of a worldwide financial meltdown that bankrupted probably 60% of small businesses.

So... Yeah.. Things HAVE changed a LOT since then. Folks are used to small operators having plenty of time to get stuff done right away.. Work through weekends.. Give stuff away... Jump through hoops - just to get the work... Not to mention guys who are pro's now were probably kicking around a hobby laser in your spare time from your real day job right before it went under..

Now... Not so much. The weak were weeded out... Operations were scaled back.. Businesses closed.. And now things have picked up...

Me personally... I understand not wanting to turn away business.... Get that... But its also fair to the customers to make lead times and expected delivery times clear... If its business to business - then its important to be clear about "Ex-PO"... Same for customer supplied material.... My fab time STARTS after you deliver material.

The next thing is cost structure. If you are already full up - Charge extra for rush jobs.... And if necessary - ask for payment up front for rush jobs.. That way - you bust your hump to get it done over night and they wait till Friday to pick it up - well... Thats fine.. They paid you double + rush setup fees...

Another one I saw from a vendor who got tired of being swamped by "wheres my stuff" calls every 4 hours.... Every time you call before the quoted delivery date and we have to go get your stuff to look at it - it goes to the back of the line... Start over... Their backlog was 6 weeks... That stopped most of the serial botherers...

And last thing... Maybe its time to consider hiring an employee or two... Thats a way to get some semblance of your life back...

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, how did you handle breaking the news to the guy that you wouldn't be showing him your machine?

Told him he couldn't go back into the shop because we have work out that we have signed non-disclosure agreements on, which was true. Then I told him it was a very expensive business to get into just to mark part numbers, so he should let us take a look at their needs and see if we could come up with a better solution for them then buying their own machine.

And last thing... Maybe its time to consider hiring an employee or two... Thats a way to get some semblance of your life back...

Already got that. Last year, we changed some of our business beliefs and stopped trying to do everything that walked in the door and started being more selective about the right work for us and the right customers for us to partner with. We power through it all, not a big deal, it's just an observation about how much things have changed. It's business, we have to adapt to the market, so we work through it all and implement things that work for us and our business.

[Kev Williams]

This may be the neverending thread

Last Friday I get a call from a guy in Florida, needs buttons engraved (may have mentioned that above already), parts arrived Sat.overnight, I did them yesterday, and got them to Fedex 2 minutes before the truck was to leave. This meant everything I had to mail yesterday didn't get mailed so I could beat HIS deadline. So today he calls me, 3pm his time..."did you get those buttons sent?" --sure did, barely. "Where did you send them??" -- to the address in your emails... "what address was that??" -- [repeat the address] -- "oh, I emailed you from my phone and that still sends out my old address." *note*: the package he sent me was sent by some courier service, so his address wasn't on the shipping label either. Sucks not to be a mind reader...

yesterday I get an email: "How busy are you this weekend?" -- not this WEEK, but weekEND... "We're having 300 (things) shipped to you Wednesday, we need 100 Friday to ship to Canada, and the rest we need Monday. I'll get the art to you tomorrow." (how did Steve start this thread?)

Then I get an email from their competitor (I just love working both ends)- We have 40 Ebby Ranes (the $1000 each suitcases) and 40 backpacks, we'll drop off 20 of each Wednesday or Thursday, we really need them Monday...

I'm thinking of just closing up shop on Tuesdays and Wednesdays since Monday seems to be everyone's due date these days...

[vic casware]

I don't work weekends, after 33 years at this i have more fun things to do but i can feel
that might come to an end soon, I quoted a job 2 weeks ago for 600 Stainless items
and 600 wood items, total time for my Fusion just over 200 hours or about 25 days
Now, on the quote i said ''I need 28 days to complete this job''.
well here we are May 3rd and it's due for installation on June 4th
now let me count, that's 21 working days from now and the job hasn't even
been accepted yet never mind the client having the Steel and wood cut and sent to me.
I feel a lot of nights and weekends coming on.

[Jeff Body]

This may be the neverending thread

Last Friday I get a call from a guy in Florida, needs buttons engraved (may have mentioned that above already), parts arrived Sat.overnight, I did them yesterday, and got them to Fedex 2 minutes before the truck was to leave. This meant everything I had to mail yesterday didn't get mailed so I could beat HIS deadline. So today he calls me, 3pm his time..."did you get those buttons sent?" --sure did, barely. "Where did you send them??" -- to the address in your emails... "what address was that??" -- [repeat the address] -- "oh, I emailed you from my phone and that still sends out my old address." *note*: the package he sent me was sent by some courier service, so his address wasn't on the shipping label either. Sucks not to be a mind reader...

yesterday I get an email: "How busy are you this weekend?" -- not this WEEK, but weekEND... "We're having 300 (things) shipped to you Wednesday, we need 100 Friday to ship to Canada, and the rest we need Monday. I'll get the art to you tomorrow." (how did Steve start this thread?)

Then I get an email from their competitor (I just love working both ends)- We have 40 Ebby Ranes (the $1000 each suitcases) and 40 backpacks, we'll drop off 20 of each Wednesday or Thursday, we really need them Monday...

I'm thinking of just closing up shop on Tuesdays and Wednesdays since Monday seems to be everyone's due date these days...

Honestly sounds like you get taken advantage of alot.
I couldn't work like that. You should be treated with more respect.

[John Lifer]

No, the problem is that they KNOW you guys will work over the weekend! It is just another work day for you, but not for them. The correct answer is, I'm booked, I'll have them for you Tuesday and Wednesday......... Or alternatively, my weekend rate is now double weekday rates. Not as palatable to them I expect, but in 99% of the cases, a day or for that matter a week isn't the end of the world. I enjoy the reading, but it kinda stinks to be working 7 days a week. Been there and done it.

[Scott Shepherd]

yesterday I get an email: "How busy are you this weekend?"

Depends. How much money you got?

Rush charges don't seem to phase anyone we've quoted for rush work. I'm thinking our "rush fee" needs to be higher

[Bill George]

Ok I admit I do not do my business full time, but I came from skilled trade union shop background. I am not cheap, sometimes I think I charge too much. But you guys need to post prices and times, for rush jobs charge until you feel good. Call it a fuel surcharge or whatever but mark it up. IF someone wants to buy a laser and wants to see yours, no way.

[Scott Shepherd]

Ok I admit I do not do my business full time, but I came from skilled trade union shop background. I am not cheap, sometimes I think I charge too much. But you guys need to post prices and times, for rush jobs charge until you feel good. Call it a fuel surcharge or whatever but mark it up. IF someone wants to buy a laser and wants to see yours, no way.

People aren't coming to us because we are too cheap and don't post prices, they are coming to us because there's no other option. The majority of people aren't asking for prices, they just need it done, and done now. They pay for it, that's not the issue. It's easy to say "Well, charge a 100% more for a rush job to work the weekend". Okay, well, when you do that, and you still get the work, it still means you have to work the weekend. This last year, I cut my weekend work done drastically.

At this point, if you have a wedding or you need something for an event, and it's tomorrow or the next day, then we are generally declining them. However, if you are a business and you have a $3,000 job that needs to done in 2 days, then we're happy to help you.

[Bill George]

And the problem is Scott, its darn hard to find good help in todays world. I am lucky both my sons are employed well but they worked for the knowledge they have, same as you and me. Today the kids coming out of HS think the world owes them and learning a trade is below their status. They would rather work at a low wage, clean job than a job where they need to think and get their hands dirty. Plus, I can use my Cell to update my Facebook on the job? Because If I can't I will just keep living in my moms basement.

[Scott Shepherd]

And the problem is Scott, its darn hard to find good help in todays world. I am lucky both my sons are employed well but they worked for the knowledge they have, same as you and me. Today the kids coming out of HS think the world owes them and learning a trade is below their status. They would rather work at a low wage, clean job than a job where they need to think and get their hands dirty. Plus, I can use my Cell to update my Facebook on the job? Because If I can't I will just keep living in my moms basement.

Amen to that!

[Mike Audleman]

This issue has nothing to do with your business of marking, cutting, engraving, etc. Its a widespread issue across virtually every sector of business I have seen (and I see a lot as a web dev). Your experiences are simply the tip of the iceberg.

There are two sources for this type of mentality that I have seen.

1. Snowflakes being pandered to in colleges by their helicopter parents and the self centered college environments. They want it now, so they get it, because everyone in their tiny sphere says they should have it. Kids want it now so their parents buy it. Unfortunately these people are now out in the the real world and expect the same to happen there. They want it now, they want their participation medal and they are simply focused on their naive take on the big picture. They were raised on the internet of "I want it now so I download it now." on-demand everything. I have already had 6 job interviews this year where these "adults" (very loose term) have had their parents come with them to the job interview expecting to sit in on it. The first thing I tell them is "I am only hiring one person. I don't need to interview your mother{father}." Invariably the parent responds something along the lines of "I am only here to help him{her} if they have questions." and I counter with "I am only hiring one person, you won't be here to help them do their job so you don't need to be here to help him{her} get it. If your son{daughter} can't get the job without your help, they clearly aren't capable of doing the job without your help either so I don't need to interview either of you.". Four left. The other two AFAIK are still looking for a job but they are doing it elsewhere. None of them were prepared for the real world.

2. Cheap china stuff. People think because they can get a $50 blueray player that every blueray player should only cost $50. Same with things lots of yall do. People can get cheap china stuff so they expect you to produce the same price point here and they don't give a darn about your time, experience or skills. And much of it on-demand at etailers like ebay and amazon. Cheap. Now. Perfect for generation "Me".

Combine the two and you get snowflakes who insist on it now, parents who gave it to them and have rooms full of made in china cheep stuff. So they expect everyone else to cater to their demands, do it now and do it cheap.

Unfortunately, I don't really see an end to this trend. Its only going to get worse as more and more of these sorts of people ascend within companies and start becoming controlling aspects within those companies. All I know for sure is, they won't be doing it here