Tool buying ethics?

[John C Cox]

I think we have to remember that Lee Valley has the liberal return policy they do have because we are buying expensive tools sight unseen in pattens that are not common to available designs.

For example - with LN.. You can get an idea of the feel from old Stanley planes. Those Stanleys are fairly common in circulation... And the LN is a turbo charged blueprinted and improved Stanley... Low risk... But they arent for everybody.

The LV planes are different. Their designs are different. I think part of the reason they allow an easy return is that the "Different" is not for everybody. And so rather than sticking someone with an expensive tool they dont like - and having that person take out their aggravations on a public forum - they allow an easy return policy.

And so - efforts made to maintain a great reputation means they have to be easy to work with if the unit isnt for you. Online musical instrument retailers often have a very liberal return policy - simply because the tactile feel and sound of an instrument is very important... You often need to play them to decide whether you like them or not.

Now... I would guess that the few units that do come back because of the operator - not the tool - are carefully inspected and then returned back to their stock for resale.

[glenn bradley]

Use your own moral compass.

personally, I would try a tool out like that for a long while before deciding you like or do not like it. Keep it for a year. Then sell it used if you do not want it. You will sell for so close to your purchase price my guess is a guy like you will regard the net rent you paid as a bargain price for a year long evaluation.

+1

When I read Prashun's responses to something he has gotten to before me, I often think we must be twin sons of different mothers. I could save a lot of typing by just following Prashun around the forum posting "Yeah, what he said".

[george wilson]

Malcom: I bought a Harbor Freight pin nailer about 15 years ago,when I had to replace the missing quarter round moldings all over this house. They removed it years ago when they installed carpeting. It works perfectly,and still does to this day. Surprising!

[steven c newman]

Well known about Craftsman hand tools.....replace any time for life ( or was) BUT, what happens when the tool replacement you get back is worse than the tool you returned?

1/2" drive ratchet....needed a new gear in the head, old one was metal, "new" one was ....nylon/plastic......Hmmmmm.

[Tony Wilkins]

Well known about Craftsman hand tools.....replace any time for life ( or was) BUT, what happens when the tool replacement you get back is worse than the tool you returned?

1/2" drive ratchet....needed a new gear in the head, old one was metal, "new" one was ....nylon/plastic......Hmmmmm.

and made in China, not the good old US of A. Guard those old Craftsman.

[steven c newman]

Most of mine have a VK stamped on them with the Model number...

[Jim Koepke]

I'm reminded of the people who use Home Depot as their free tool rental place.

These folks will surely spend eternity between belt sanders in a very warm place.

jtk

[John K Jordan]

When I buy shoes online I order 10 pairs or so, different models, different sizes. Try them at home, in the house, run up the stairs a few times, etc. If one pair feels good, I will return the rest.

If there is any doubt, perhaps call the company and ask how they would prefer to handle things.

My wife has a lot of trouble getting shoes to fit. She's been a customer of the online FootSmart store for many years. When she called they told her, yes, please order, try, and return those that don't fit. They suggested she order multiple pairs at once to improve the chances at a good fit. I think she pays shipping fees but there has never been an issue with returns. Lots of returns. Dozens of returns. They've gotten thousands of dollars of business from the shoes she's kept.

JKJ

[Frederick Skelly]

Why don't you just call L-N and ask them? There are real people there who will talk to you. No need to have a moral crisis.

Never was a moral crisis my friend. I knew where I was on it. Just seemed like it would be an interesting discussion topic, which is why I wrote the original post the way I did. And I learned a few things too - can't beat that!

Best regards,
Fred

[Stanley Covington]

Never was a moral crisis my friend. I knew where I was on it. Just seemed like it would be an interesting discussion topic, which is why I wrote the original post the way I did. And I learned a few things too - can't beat that!

Best regards,
Fred

Fred:

It was a good, educational post of eternal importance. Now I know I need fear not only fire & brimstone (yuck, stinky) demons (mean and butt-ugly), needle-mountains (pokey, ouch!), and lakes of boiling blood in the afterlife, but power tools as well! I pledge to forsake whiskey, beer, and tacos, and repent of my evil ways!

[Frederick Skelly]

fred:

It was a good, educational post of eternal importance. Now i know i need fear not only fire & brimstone (yuck, stinky) demons (mean and butt-ugly), needle-mountains (pokey, ouch!), and lakes of boiling blood in the afterlife, but power tools as well! I pledge to forsake whiskey, beer, and tacos, and repent of my evil ways!

Eternal belt sander noise and dust. Oh poor Kees. And he seemed like such a nice man!
Gonna be tough to give up tacos......

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

According to return policy he is innocent. According to religion he is more innocent than the seller that is making profit on him. On the other hand, he kind of indirectly took advantage of other buyers, since they supposedly had to pay higher price, is that what we joke about here? And finally, who we are to judge, right?

I think shooting plane is sooo good that you would not be even tempted by return policy! (but some other sins may, though).

[Finally, there is no common morality in the world of money we are living in. This is an example of contradiction between two morals.]

[bridger berdel]

In any transaction there are ethical responsibilities for both buyer and seller. If the rules are well understood, both parties agree to them and there is no coercion all's well.

[Jerry Olexa]

If it doesn't feel right to you (about returning), then it probably isn't!!

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

In any transaction there are ethical responsibilities for both buyer and seller. If the rules are well understood, both parties agree to them and there is no coercion all's well.

True, return policy is all we need to be concerned with, but then again, why this question was raised at all?

I merely want to point out two things. That between people it is not moral to make profit on your friends. But it is moral for employer to make profit on employees. We are told that employer earns that by organizing everything. In this view the question sounds like that - is it moral to take an action that would reduce profit of employer, or seller in this case. We feel like we might be "stealing" someone's profit (or reward). Or do we let seller "steal" less from us?

Because we are not sure sometimes which one applies, that brings this question. What should we do in case of friendly seller?

One resolution is to say - I want to donate that reward regardless and will not return in any case.
Second one - I know I will have to pay more than it costs to make it (+ other costs), but at least I can return it if I wouldn't like it. Like you are paying insurance in the price already.

The more time one has to spend to earn that amount of money the more one would stick to the second option.