Topcoats w/ toner?

[Bennett Ostroff]

I recently made this dining table for a customer. It's white oak with a gel stain and topcoated with a few coats of gloss wipe-on poly (oil-based) and then a couple coats of satin. Unfortunately the customer is unhappy with the color (read: indecisive / buyer's remorse). She'd like it to be a good bit darker and I've agreed to work with her. The top is 7 feet long and thick and very heavy, so I'd really like to exhaust all options before taking the top and totally stripping/sanding and refinishing the entire thing.

Here's my question: is it practical to use a dye/toner with additional topcoats to achieve a darker color? I've tried mixing a dark TransTint dye with wipe-on poly and it didn't mix well - obviously the dye isn't oil based. What if I used the General Finishes water-based topcoat mixed with TransTint? Would I need a clear coat on top of the toner coat? I know this isn't ideal but I'm willing to take a risk. Any advice appreciated, thanks.

[Wayne Lomman]

Use you same poly but tint it with solvent borne dye. Make it not too strong a colour mix, thin it and spray it on as a toner. You will get even colour without streaking. Apply successive coats as the previous coat dries. Given your wipe on, this may take some time. Once you have your colour, go ahead and apply a couple of clears over the top. Spraying is important so you don't trash the existing coating. Cheers

[John TenEyck]

I think Wayne's got it right. I would not put a WB toner over an OB varnish, even with a shellac sealer in between. Just too much risk, and the problem can be solved in a straight forward way by tinting your OB varnish with a UTC. Look at Homestead Finishing - Cal-Tint. Spraying your OB varnish it will be no fun whatsoever though.

John

[Bennett Ostroff]

Unfortunately spraying is not an option. Will wiping definitely give me poor results? Foam brush?

[John TenEyck]

Wiping on toner is not recommended. I've done it with a brush but it's still not going to turn out as uniform as spraying no matter how good you are. A better approach if you can't spray would be to apply a glaze and then additional topcoats. You should make up a sample board to that looks like the top is now to use for practice no matter what you try. An next time, make a sample board for approval by your customer before you finish the project. I do this with every project and have avoided many a potential problem that way.

John

[Edwin Santos]

I will put in a second vote to try and accomplish what you want with an oil based glaze. There's a bit of technique involved in the sense that the colorant you leave behind is a function of how much you wipe off, and use of a dry blending brush is a big help. Once you have the color where you want it, you can topcoat again with your oil based varnish. If you don't already have it, Bob Flexner's book on wood finishing is very good and talks extensively about glazing (and toning). There are commercially available glazes (I think GF makes some). There are also recipes for making your own. One thing I like about glazing is the reversibility. Since you're doing it over a sealed surface, you can remove it until it is sealed down with a topcoat. That said, be sure and experiment on something sacrificial.

[Bennett Ostroff]

Great, recommendations, thanks. I am leaning toward trying an oil-based glaze/gel stain. But does anyone think spraying a lacquer/toner from a rattle can would give me decent results? Something like this. And then top coated with a wiping varnish?

[Wayne Lomman]

I am not confident it would work. If you must try it, do a test piece first and spray a clear over the toner before wiping anything.

My instinct is that the trouble will get worse. If you really can't spray, bite the bullet, strip it back and start over. I believe it is the only realistic option for you. Sorry. Cheers

[Marty Schlosser]

Bennett,

Is spraying not an option due to concerns over spraying in a client's home, or because you haven't become adequately adept at spraying yet?

If the answer is the latter, than because you've got clients, I'm assuming you're doing this as a business. This should be the incentive you need to take the leap and get into spraying, as doing so will open the door to techniques and products such as the tinting discussed in this thread. The investment is actually quite reasonable if you stay with an HVLP turbine based system (one of the most popular is Fui's Mini Mite 3, which consistently gets rave reviews. Here's the link to their website: http://www.fujispray.com) and use waterborne products which you can safely spray in a shop-made booth... or at your client's residence with a bit of imagination and some temporary plastic walls.

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Unfortunately spraying is not an option. Will wiping definitely give me poor results? Foam brush?