[OP]
Member
Hello Group,
A few years ago i came down with menieres disease, which has resulted in vertigo with very little notice. (and it has not improved my lack of dancing ability) So awhile back i had a vertigo attack and fell on my table saw. a near miss but still enough to say no more. So i have been using hand tool (yes i am a neanderthal. lol). but recently i have been thinking about a saw stop or a 18 inch band saw ( if i fall i will go down and out of the line of fire.) Any thoughts?
Thanks Bill
Member
Which to get would depend on your needs.
The SawStop would limit your injury if you fell onto the blade. But if you passed out while cutting on the band saw your hand could still go into the blade but you would most likely collapse beside the saw and limit your injury to your hand.
It all depends on which you can get the most out of.
Member
Wow! There's about the most compelling argument for a beefy overarm blade guard if I've ever heard one! Glad you didn't fall on your blade!Originally Posted by Bill Kelleher
Workshops can be a very dangerous place for someone prone to falling. There's far more than your saw that can hurt you if you slip or fall. You'll have to be very vigilant in looking for those hazards. If I were you, I'd be putting extra attention on putting substantial guards on other tools as well (like shapers, routers, etc.) My Clausing drill press came with a flip up shroud that covers the drill chuck so it doesn't snag some clothing or your knuckles (I actually just took that off a couple of weeks ago). Euro-style jointer guards are way safer than porkchops in that respect. You get the idea.
The other thing that you might want to consider too, is the sharp corner thing. If someone was to do a header and hit their head on the corner of my very heavy shaper and jointer tables on the way down, it would probably kill them -- the 1800 lb. jointer isn't going to be on the losing end of that match up. You might want to consider that type of hazard as well.
Contributor
Bill,
This might not be the answer you want, but I'd say stick with hand tools or drop woodworking altogether in favor of a less hazardous pursuit.
Seriously, it's not worth taking the chance of a catastrophic or fatal injury as a result of a spontaneous involuntary attack.
I would say the same to someone susceptible to syncope or seizure.
And/or - I would recommend you raise this subject with your physician and follow his/her advice.
One other thought - even if you had a SawStop with its safety features and you had a fall incident where you lost grip on the board, you're at serious risk of kickback injury.
Edwin
Last edited by Edwin Santos; 02-22-2018 at 11:28 PM.
Contributor
As someone with a shop full of both power and hand tools, and a close relative with Meniere's, I would definitely advise you to go with hand tool wood work. There are lots of satisfying and beautiful things you can do with no particularly dangerous power tools. If your vertigo is sufficient to cause you to fall unexpectedly (in some sufferers, it comes on slowly enough they can stop and sit/lay down before the world swims out of control), I would also pay close to attention to other sharp and hard things in the shop, or wear headgear when working around the machines.
Last edited by Steve Demuth; 02-23-2018 at 11:48 AM.
Contributor
I would opt to go solely neander if I were in your shoes. I would also buy S4S whenever possible to avoid all of the donkey work involved in prepping boards by hand.
But if I had to choose between the bandsaw and the Sawstop... I guess I would get the sawstop with a good overhead guard. That would probably be better at mitigating your risk?
Moderator
There is a risk of kickback on the tablesaw if you have an event occur in the middle of pushing. That can be just as catastrophic as contacting the blade. So, the Sawstop is not a complete answer here.
The bandsaw too can get nasty if a piece is not properly supported through a cut.
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 02-23-2018 at 10:17 AM.
Member
Bill,
Take a look at the track-based products at Eurekazone.com.
For cutting I am wondering if using their EZ-One Woodworking Center - which is basically a track saw guide rail that lifts up allowing you to slide material underneath the track for cutting. It uses a regular circular saw attached to a special EZ Smart base - with an anti-kickback fin, and has zero-clearance inserts that provide very clean cuts. The saw really has to come off of the track, so if vertigo comes on, it just stays in place - and likely turns off if your finger leaves the power switch. It would be hard to imagine getting body parts down to the blade. The table itself is 24"x48", but the sliding rails are 44" long, so if you put 3/4" plywood inserts in, the top surface can be as big as 44"x48" - a pretty big work area. If you have your material cut down to 4'x4' pieces, the rest of the cutting can be done on the EZ-One.
The EZ-One can actually be used with ANY brand of track & track saw. The only difference is how the track is attached to the so-called bridge elements (using hex nuts instead of the EZ connectors).
Eurekazone makes a Universal Edge Guide for ripping lengths of material. That might work for you, but I'd fear that that if you fall you might bring the assembly down with you. The same goes for using their Miter Square (for cross cuts and mitering). I don't think I'd recommend that, for the same reason.
For dadoes and rabbets using their Super Smart Router Kit (SSRK) attaches the router to a guide rail (such as the one on the EZ-ONE) and guides the movement of the router. Again, you don't really lift or hold the router in place while routing. Instead you simply push the SSRK base along in the desired direction.
They call this "the dead wood concept" - the wood stays in place while the saw moves. Their thinking is that this is much safer.
Search youtube using "Eurekazone" for videos on these products. Searching using product names may find additional videos. Eurekazone is a small business located in Florida. If you have specific questions, just call or write them. They are very good at responding. By the way, I don't work for them - just a happy customer/user for many years.
If you're interested to learn more, you might also post a message on their "track saw forum" - there's a link at the top of the eurekazone web page - and it is open to ALL brands - to ask for recommendations. The folks there are MUCH more experienced woodworkers than me, and very happy to help folks (including me) out.
The best of luck on your search for solutions!!
Last edited by Ken Kortge; 02-23-2018 at 8:52 AM.
Member
Bill,
Sorry for your medical issue but glad that you did not hurt yourself seriously from your fall. I think I have the best solution for you in which you can use hand tools as many have suggested AS WELL AS using your tablesaw without any worry of amputations AND kickbacks.
First, let me point out that if you fall on a SawStop spinning blade, the saw stops and drops -- zero risk of kickbacks. The slight chance of a kickback would exist if you fall not hitting the sawblade and losing the control of your push stick and the stock AND the stock is not supported at the end by the pawl AND by the riving knife. What are the chances of all of those conditions that happen at the same time. Some chances some would argue. If you ask me, the risk of driving a car and getting hurt could be higher.
OK, let us eliminate that tiny chance and this is what I suggest:
For every cut, use the SawStop and this: www.jessem.com/clear-cut-stock-guides.html
With this combination, you will never get kickbacks or amputations. Yes, it will limit some of your cuts but it allows you to continue to enjoy the tablesaw without any worry (as long as you don't turn off the SS feature...which is easy: just don't use any wet wood or use it to cut metals).
Bandsaw? No, no, no unless it has a SS feature on it, or you are willing to accept the risk...The meat industry has a lot of serious bandsaw injuries even when operated by workers without any medical concerns.
You can enjoy both hand tool and power woodworking with such wonderful safety devices available in the market, but only you can decide what is right for you. If I were you, tomorrow (free SawStop dust collection or mobile base is now on offer) I would be ordering my SawStop and the Clear-cut guide right away!
The worst incident I have known from a cabinet shop was when a guy fell and his hand (palm) was in touch with a dado blade. That was before SS was invented.
Simon
Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-23-2018 at 10:19 AM.
Contributor
SawStop would be the better of the two in my opinion Bill.
With all the advancements in CNC routers there might be a simple to operate machine out there that would work for you. If you're a design and wing it as you go woodworker (like me) it would probably frustrate you. If you're a pre-design and plan using kind of person, especially if you use Sketchup or similar, the CNC would be useful to you and safe.
Member
I was thinking something similar to what Ken is saying, and my first thought was the Festool MFT/saw combo. So pricey, but I think it would be perfectly safe if you fell on it. In some ways it does much more anyway. It's a miter saw, small table saw, and radial arm saw in one.
Moderator
Considering the implications of this condition, I would personally eschew using any "stationary" power tools and stick with Neander woodworking, perhaps supplemented with a track saw and other electric portables for stock preparation. Alternatively, getting help from another local woodworker for those tasks that require using larger tools could also be a great...and safe...solution.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
Not even a track saw, Jim. A person who is holding a plunge saw and fall can hurt himself or herself seriously as the spinning saw would be out of control!
If the SawStop+Clear cut guide is not taken for any reason (financial, space etc), then hand tools (plus light portable tools) are the only route to go for lone-wolf operations.
Simon
Member
Absolutely not true...Google and you may find a piece of fatality news at a jobsite due to using a circular type of saw and falling!
Simon
Contributor
Every method can have the possibility of serious injury and that includes hand tools. Even though remote the possibility exists to fall on a chisel. Especially if you got into the habit of running with scissors when you were a kid and you still do it with your chisels.
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