Yet Another Bench Build

[michael langman]

Thank You David, I'll check it out.

[William Fretwell]

The traditional tail vise is not as bad as you think, it's just a frame that moves. Break it down in stages. The placement of the screw relative to the edge of the bench needs careful thought, the rest is just logical. I made my tail vise twice as long so I could move the leg and stand more in the middle of the bench. Also I can have a Moxon vise with no hardware!
I do like the Moravian bench, there are several other benches I would like to build for fun.

[Andy Nichols]

I do build large doors, my largest door to date was a pair of doors each 6 ft wide by 10ft tall, and agree with other posts, the bench can be much smaller than the door, especially if one has a leg and tail vise.

My bench is over 10 ft long and 35" wide, it's a split top 22" wide on the tail vise/leg vise side and 11" on the other with a 2" divider/tool holder. Now the kicker, wish it was 4" wider on the 11" side....

However I use all sides of my bench and both ends, and it has a traditional LN tail vise. My desire to have the extra 4" is based on using the bench for over a year now, and I'm about to install a LN or Hovarter twin screw 24" face vise on what I call the back side (11" side).

Have also installed a Sheldon quick set vise on the side opposite the tail vise (11" side) and each end has some type of adjustable planing stop. With the LN tail vise I can clamp an almost 11 ft section on the bench and can also clamp a 10 ft between the tail vise and leg vise.

Use each vise as a station for specific types of planing and or joinery and at times have 2 people working on opposite sides of the bench, but that is mainly just during the holidays.


Of course everyone's right, if my bench was against the wall it would be too wide...


Good woodworking,
Andy

[michael langman]

William, After reading your posts, I spent yesterday researching leg vises. There were some good posts here on the Creek about them also. They look like a very useful, versatile vise to have. I find 300.00 for a hardware kit for them a little steep for my pockets, but think I may be able to put one together for half of that much money.
I do like the idea of the metal slides to prevent sagging in the long term, and am thinking of using flat stock steel bolted together with flat head screws for a sliding mechanism.
The part of the L which projects off the end of the bench looks like a weak point, if it does not have some kind of sliding support underneath of it to keep it from sagging. Some say it is more of a counterweight, then say a moxon vise in it's purpose, but this doesn't make much sense to me.
The traditional vise made entirely of all wood is quite a project. More so then the bench itself it seems. I would have to come up with some good hard maple or beech for that. Or maybe just line the jaws with some hard wood that could be replaceable.
I will have to go more in the style of a roubo bench with a small tool well and skip the side aprons if I use the leg and tail vises too, I suppose. Thankyou for your insight.
Andy, Those are some big doors you have made there. And I was agonizing over moving the doors I will be installing, if I use all hard wood.
The two sides of my bench were going to be about 12.5 inches wide with a 12 inch wide tool well and 1 1/2" thick aprons. If I install a tail vise then the front side will end up being 15-16 inches wide. I will make the tool well smaller and still keep the 11 inch wideness on the other half of the bench. It is already laminated together.
I hate to be making such big modifications in the middle of a build, but would like to get it right the first time. Much to think about. Thank You Andy and William.

[William Fretwell]

Michael, just to clarify the term 'leg vise', typically on a Roubo bench. The hardware is typically somewhat pricey. The Scandinavian shoulder vise uses inexpensive hardware ($40).

I think the rest of your deliberation refers to the tail vise. The part of the L projecting off the bench is not a weak point as it's not really stressed at all. That part is not used as a vise. It does have a sliding support, the counter weight effect does help reduce friction on the sliding support a little but really minimal. It can droop a little, especially with a steel screw at full extension. Firstly when the vise is tightened the droop vanishes, secondly it is rarely used at full extension.


This is one case where the least expensive hardware gives you more flexibility. You can make the tail vise any size you want, in my case 30 inches. The idea that the traditional tail vise is somehow inferior is correct, it is inferior in price! In all other regards it is superb, especially in satisfaction. It is not more work than the bench. I have measured mine at full 13"extension and it droops 1/8" to the very end of the vise, that's well beyond the last dog hole. When tightened there is zero droop. You do need to use hardwood for the entire tail vise; for lots of reasons.

[michael langman]

My apologies William. I meant to say Tail Vise in my first sentence, not leg vise. I was pricing the Lee Nielson tail vise kit at about 300.00 . It sure looks like a well made vise kit.
Some how I think I will be adding a tail vise as I have read of much praise for it's usefulness. Just have to research the metal slide mechanism versus all wood alternatives. Thankyou.

[Robert Engel]

michael,

Have you thought about a wagon vise? It would save quite a bit of money and work just as well. A wagon vise and row of dog holes along front and back of bench might be handy in your door making. Even though you're top is already made, I don't think its too late.

[michael langman]

Hi Robert, Yes I have considered a wagon vise., but I made my bench tops 80" long, and my doors are almost 80" long. So I was looking to add some length to my clamping abilities. The tail vise will extend from the end of the table. But Thankyou for the idea anyway.

[Andy Nichols]

Just a note: Have the new version of the LN tail vise on my bench, don't think it will ever sag.....plus there is more functionality with a tail vise, I've now had both and will never do a wagon vise again, at least not on my personal bench, and I'm not knocking wagon vises, just promoting the LN tail vise.

Regards,
Andy

[andy bessette]

I would never trade a full width vise for a wagon vise.

[michael langman]

I really like the LN tail; vis too Andy. I spent yesterday trying to incorporate one into my bench top. Never the less I only have a 3" thick top, and that vise isn't going to work for me.
I have seen a video on "The New Fangled Workbench", using Gosh forbid Pipe clamps the full length of the bench installed in the center tool well. And also pipe clamps to support a planning beam along the front.
I really like these ideas, and plan on going that route, as it makes for a very capable bench for a variety of tasks.

[William Fretwell]

The traditional tail vise works very well with thinner tops.