Indeed!Originally Posted by John C Cox
jtk
Contributor
Indeed!
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
I offered a planrmaking class at my local woodcraft. Nobody signed up.
Member
Thank you Jim. Good to have a rewarding place to hang out for inspiration & growth.
Well said.
Last edited by Blair Swanson; 07-01-2018 at 9:29 PM.
Member
Wow, how ironic! I just saw the original post. My Veritas shooter has been at Lee Valley for several weeks. I discovered that it was not square. They have examined it and said it was within spec. I must say, I appreciate their effort, but I am very disappointed that what I am seeing is 'within spec.' I'll make it work somehow. Can't afford not to! It cut well, but I started to notice that my shooting board was wearing strangely. After some head scratching, I put the plane on my granite plate and when I put a machinist's square next to it, there was a large gap at the top! Whoa! I don't have a good way to get a good measurement of how much it is out really. It sure looks like more than the 0.003" and more than I would expect. Lesson learned. I will make sure I put anything else I order through a proper inspection before I use it next time. Expensive lesson! Still quite the Lee Valley/Veritas fan!
Mine should be back soon. I'll have to figure out a way to modify my shooting board to make up the angle. I need to redo it anyway as it is all out of whack now as a result of using it with the out of squareness.
Tony
Member
Did they say what their spec is? I could not find anything about it on their website. My shooting plane is square (just checked...phew).
I am not saying this is your problem, but way too many people overclamp their knob on the lever cap (on any planes). I have many times had problem unclamping a plane others have just used. Overclamping can cause damage according to Veritas.
Please update us on how you get your problem resolved.
Simon
Member
To quote: "flat within 0.003." That does not say that it is square, so I must retract my statement. I do not know what the squareness tolerance is. I might could try a feeler gauge in the gap to get some idea, but that's not very accurate when looking for thousandths. I have pictures, but that doesn't help either. Bottom line is that it is what it is and Lee Valley/Veritas find it acceptable, so I must work with it.
I'm pretty conservative with my plane tightening as I do tend to overdo it when tightening things in general.
Someone further up the thread suggested shimming the plane track. I might play with that. Now, something else to consider....I bet the majority of what I plane will be 3/4" or less. So, the error over that distance is pretty tiny. I will do some experimenting. I'll have to be careful not to "rock" the plane in the track too.
Member
@Tony - Were you given any insight as to the discrepancy between "within spec" & what you have experienced?
B.
EDIT: Re shimming the track - I wonder if a couple layers of Lee Valley's low friction tape on the outside of the track would help.
Last edited by Blair Swanson; 07-02-2018 at 12:40 PM.
Contributor
Here in the Pacific Northwest we experience a lot of shifts in the humidity. My shooting board usually has a bit of blue tape stuck to the fence or bed to make up for a wet or dry day.Someone further up the thread suggested shimming the plane track.
Only one of my planes is really out of square enough for me to worry about its abilities as a shooting plane. Most of them haven't even been checked.
When shooting for a precise edge or mitered corners the last few licks are often done sort of freehand if needed to square up a piece or close a gap.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
The thickness of a sheet of 20 pound printer paper is roughly 4 thou (0.004"). Feeler gauges with a smallest measure of 0.5 thou are readily available (I own several, and didn't have to hunt them down too hard.)
Thanks for the heads up on the Veritas shooting plane, where this would actually matter.
Member
Ha! Yeah, have several stacks of known thickness shims - playing cards are around 0.011", pages of my desk calendar are ~0.005, etc. I use them for all sorts of things. I have a 3D printer and the 0.005 sheets are great for setting the Z zero setting. I also have a set of cheapie automotive gauges that I have pretty much used up - cutting pieces here and there. I need to get a new set.
Member
That might do the trick! Need to get some of that stuff.
No, I wasn't given any verbage about the condition of the plane other than it met their spec. I miss the QC area I had available a my old job - I could have measured it within a few tenths. I don't trust my eyeballs or my fingers when talking thousandths. But, when I placed the square against it (on a nice flat piece of ref. granite), there was a significant gap at the top.
Wondered about buying their track. Seems like it would be easy to shim it and adjust the fit too. Might try it.
Member
Seems like an investment with much potential. Opens up creative possibilities I should imagine.
B.
EDIT: Thought you may enjoy checking this out. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBc17SLh38
I may wish to build it with a reverse slope. That would tend to push the stock down into the bottom of the fence
rather than lift it. Also - as it stands, the tilt of the stock would decrease the skew of the plane blade edge, while a reversed tilt would increase it. Not sure if that holds water or not. Anyway, the ramped concept seems very practical for utilizing more blade edge.
Last edited by Blair Swanson; 07-03-2018 at 12:08 PM.
Member
Bottom line, if you can fit a sheet of printer paper in the gaps of your joints, there's a problem, no matter how it was done. At least for finished furniture (jigs, etc., all that matters is that they work for their intended purpose.)
Contributor
Folks, I wanted to post some background that may be relevant. This is from a review of the Shooter I did in December: "The instructions include an insert that talks about tolerances (picture below - sorry it's a tad fuzzy). I found myself wondering if that may have been included based on conversations here a few months ago. Mine is within the 0.003 tolerance. I was glad to get the insert - it told me that absolutely nothing was wrong." The 'conversations' I was referring to in that quote were this particular thread.
I adjust-out the 0.003 tolerance with my lateral adjuster and get perfectly square parts/joints. I don't know how much "tolerance" you can make up this way before goofing-up something else. But it certainly works for me.
20171223_135227.jpg
Hope it helps someone.
Fred
Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 07-04-2018 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Typos
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
“If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”
Member
Thanks Fred for the additional information which was not included with my plane, probably bought long before any discussion about squareness arose. The additional information is not on LV web site either. LV should update the online manual or product site to include such useful information. The lateral adjustment is already a technique we often use to edge plane a workpiece.
As I said over the power tool thread, I do not adopt a machinist approach in woodworking, and always use the outcome of a cut to determine if a tool or machine cuts straight, flat or square. I don't lose sleep over tolerances.
Simon
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