Thoughts about glue-ups and clamps

[Will Blick]

ahhh, the epoxy finish... never tried that before, but makes perfect sense. I assume, if done right, the epoxy will prevent changes to the wood moisture level, elminating movement...of course, its still vulnerable to movement from extreme changes in temps. I notice more and more epoxy finishes, this is must be the reason! Thx for sharing...

[Larry Edgerton]

Will--thank you very much. I believe this construction is successful mainly because of the teak, which is oil rich and, as such perhaps is more stable during seasonal humidity changes. But also because of the finish that is applied (not shown--someone else applies that), which is a number of coats of WEST epoxy followed by varnish or clear polyurethane, which encapsulates the wood and provides UV protection. On the other hand the marine environment is one of the toughest of all.

I use that method on any projects that break the rules of conventional woodworking wisdom. In extreme cases I have pulled the West System further into the wood with a vacuum bag before final sizing of parts, assembled with West, Finished with West 207, and then a top coat of choice, usually automotive clear. Boat building is a wealth of knowledge right at our fingertips.

[Will Blick]

I was thinking of the same thing while this thread was developing, specially since West epoxy is so tied to the boating field of ww. I get their newsletter, and see some amazing glue ups. If they can make crazy shapes that hold up over time with extreme exposure to the elements, then it should be possible for fine ww as well. Of course we have a higher threshold, i.e. to prevent tiny gaps from forming in joints, whereas boat builders prob. not that anal! However, that level of finish you mention, to protect from small movements is something I never seen applied to fine ww. Did you learn these techniques from ww boating books, or from West Epoxy publications? I would be interested in learning more about this.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a lot of clamps for glue ups. I did a lamination recently on a 50” long part.

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[andy bessette]

...Of course we have a higher threshold, i.e. to prevent tiny gaps from forming in joints, whereas boat builders prob. not that anal!... Did you learn these techniques from ww boating books, or from West Epoxy publications?...

This really made me laugh. Do you actually believe that clients who own multi-million-dollar yachts are less demanding of the quality of their woodwork? The table first shown in clamps I installed on a yacht worth perhaps $15,000,000. Other yacht clients include Larry Ellison (Oracle Systems), the Waltons (Walmart).

A good place for you to start learning about using (especially WEST) epoxy is the book: "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Building". I have been using their products (literally barrels of epoxy) since the mid'70's.

Me working on 281' yacht "Aquila", the largest yacht to be built in USA since the 1930's.

[Will Blick]

My comment (the way I wrote it) did deserve a chuckle
Of course, I agree with you...
When I wrote that, I had the pictures in my mind, of the West Epoxy newsletters, where they show many boat skeletons being glued up. These joints will never be seen as they are covered. A kitchen table as this thread was about, is viewed everyday. I was not thinking in terms of the finished areas of the boat.
That yacth in the background is insane!! That must be the 1/10th of 1% the population we hear on news . OK, in this case, .000000001%.... thx for the rescource, will check it out!

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have only built a couple of canoes, but based on my limited experience I would say I would be much more concerned about a crack or opening of any sort in my canoe than in a piece of furniture. Especially when I'm floating around in the canoe, since it would tend to let the water in which leads to unpleasant (and relatively immediate) consequences.

[Will Blick]

If a tiny joint opened, and let water in and your canoe sunk.... well, guess what?
EVERYONE is in full agreement with you Zachary! In this case, your tiny open joint is more critical then a cosmetic joint opening in a table top!!!

Of course, I was only referring to small tiny openings in the skeleton of a boat carcass, that never sees water. My entire point was, if boat builders can keep their joints tight, exposed to elements 2x worse than a kitchen table, then it makes sense there must be ways to secure edge molding from moving, in sizes and places where its not seen much in fine ww. Examples above in this thread.
Amazing the direction these threads can go!

[Larry Edgerton]

DSCF3084.jpgDSCF3085.jpgThis table breaks all the rules, and ironically sits at a restaurant at a harbor in front of The DeVos family rowboat. Our secretary of education regularly dines here at this table, and no cracks even after a steam pipe broke in the restaurant at night. West for the win! There are others, but West has helped me every time I had an unusual project, they are the bomb, and to save a few dollars I would feel like I was cheating on my wife Ha!

[mark mcfarlane]

...

7. For narrower glue ups, I really like the Bessey Revo Jr in an 18" length. Lightweight and effective. But again, I wouldn't go longer with the Juniors because of potential flex. I get out the JETs. But that's just me.
...

I tend to reach for my short Revo Jr's first, due to their light weight. They seem to be able to provide enough pressure for the types of furniture I have been building and they weigh a lot less than the big Bessey's. At first I didn't like them, they just don't feel as hefty. Now I love them: they are good enough. I'm thinking off buying a few more 18"s.

If I have a joint that won't mate well due to movement after milling I recut it, at least on larger long grain glue ups where I have extra width. I've never had a gap in long glue ups freshly cut on my slider, which is one of the unanticipated blessings of having a long throw slider: very accurate straight edge rips.