Marking Gauge - clone of Tite-Mark

[Mike Henderson]

Mike:

Thanks for the tip ordered one to test for myself....have a Lee Valley micro adj and don't like it.

So far my favorite wheel cutting gauges are the Tite Mark and the Rob Cosman gauges, really like Cosman's design that won't roll off the bench, plus the big wheel option is great for the standard as well his mortise gauge

Andy -- mos maiorum

One thing to look out for: When I received mine, the middle "spinner" that you use to adjust it was screwed tightly to the bottom of the adjustment mechanism. I took the head apart and put the tight part in my vise to use a tool to loosen it. Worked fine but here's the catch. It's left hand threads on the bottom of the spinner and right hand threads on the top. Has to be to get it to work the way it does. So if you get a tight one and have to use a tool to loosen it, remember that it's left hand threads and you have to turn it the opposite way that you'd be accustomed to.

Mike

[Andy Nichols]

OK

Thanks for the info.....

-- mos maiorum

[Phil Mueller]

Derek, trust me, you're the last person I would want to debate on the merits of different marking guages. I will just say that regarding the Veritas double wheel versus the Tite-Mark dedicated mortise wheel, I find the Tite-Mark faster to set up and produces more distinct lines.

I actually decided to give it a test...at least from the set up stand point. I started with the Veritas double wheel on the bench, and the Tite-Mark with the single wheel attached and my little packet that has the dedicated wheels and allen wrenches setting on the bench. Test set up would be 1/2" offset from the face edge and a 1/4" mortise using a Ray Isle 1/4" mortice chisel.

At a relaxed pace, the Veritas took 1:36.18 to set. The Tite-Mark took 1:08.29 to set.

I only present this in the spirit of fun, and frankly, 28 seconds or so really doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things. And yes, I'm between projects and don't have much else to do at the moment

[Derek Cohen]

Phil, thanks for the clarification.

We are discussing the two gauges from a different perspective/priority. You are looking at speed of set up. I am looking at the clarity of the lines produced by each gauge.

I would agree that a single set of wheels are both quicker and easier to set up. I have both individual- and dedicated width TM mortice/tenon wheels. However, using two wheels at the same time requires double the downforce of one. Wheel cutters are thin and do not show up well on end grain. A double wheel leaves a very faint line. For this reason I prefer a single gauge to score tenon lines. The double arm is simply two single arms together - they are used independently of each other, not simultaneously (as with a double wheel).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[glenn bradley]

I hold mine as Mike's pics show. The Veritas with the eccentric stem is my preferred. Like many "hand" tools, your hands make the difference in what is good or poor.

[Stewie Simpson]

Andy; I use the single cutter Veritas marking gauge, and got sick of being caught out with an incorrect gauge line when the cutter wheel decided to loosen off. 3 months ago I ended up using a couple of drops of Loctite on the thread of tightening screw, and its remained secure since that time. Something to think on.

regards Stewie;

[Phil Mueller]

Derek, thank you for your clarification! My problem/mistake was trying to use the Veritas double wheel by forcing both wheels simultaneously. I now understand the principle and in my latest "test" found you are absolutely correct.
Thanks!

[Andy Nichols]

Andy; I use the single cutter Veritas marking gauge, and got sick of being caught out with an incorrect gauge line when the cutter wheel decided to loosen off. 3 months ago I ended up using a couple of drops of Loctite on the thread of tightening screw, and its remained secure since that time. Something to think on.

regards Stewie;

Thanks for the tip....

Andy -- mos maiorum

[James Waldron]

Honestly, even though I'm not especially well off, I'll honour the Tite Mark patent holder by not buying a clone. I'm very uncomfortable with supporting people who run around in gray areas of the law like that.

I'll continue to bumble along with my veritas ones, or my ancient wooden ones, or save my money. Fundamentally, I'm not in such a hurry that I can't just use my veritas ones.

There is no Titemark patent. There is no gray area of the law involved. The cited patent is for a different product and a different company, as noted above.

Look before you leap!

[Jim Koepke]

There is no Titemark patent. There is no gray area of the law involved. The cited patent is for a different product and a different company, as noted above.

Look before you leap!

That is correct, there isn't a patent on the Titemark gauge. The expense of lawyers to enjoin another's benefiting from an originator's work wouldn't prevent the next bottom feeder from popping out of the woodwork to copy the original design.

As end users of a product we all make our decisions to either support those who work to bring us inovative products or we can support those who come along later who invest little to copy those designs hoping to profit at a lower price point.

jtk

[Bob Lang]

It isn't a legal issue but a moral one. I know Kevin Drake and consider him to be friend. After graduating from the College of the Redwoods Fine Woodworking program he stayed put and started Glen-Drake. His operation is very small and he has developed a number of excellent products. Almost everything he has developed has been knocked off, and the copy cats include large and well known retailers. In classes I've taught, knock-off gauges didn't even have flat registration faces. In fairness I don't know if these were the ones being discussed in this thread or not. In my experience the gauges and brass hammers look like the real thing but are functionally worthless. My point is that there are consequences to others based on our personal purchase decisions. I don't worry much about legality but I try to put my money where my values are and support small independent and creative businesses.

Bob Lang

[glenn bradley]

Andy; I use the single cutter Veritas marking gauge, and got sick of being caught out with an incorrect gauge line when the cutter wheel decided to loosen off. 3 months ago I ended up using a couple of drops of Loctite on the thread of tightening screw, and its remained secure since that time. Something to think on.

regards Stewie;

Funny story; I did that when I first got the tool due to someone posting that tip here. I forgot all about it and couldn't figure out why the screw was in so tight when it was time for a cutting edge touch up ;-)

[Mike Henderson]

It isn't a legal issue but a moral one. I know Kevin Drake and consider him to be friend. After graduating from the College of the Redwoods Fine Woodworking program he stayed put and started Glen-Drake. His operation is very small and he has developed a number of excellent products. Almost everything he has developed has been knocked off, and the copy cats include large and well known retailers. In classes I've taught, knock-off gauges didn't even have flat registration faces. In fairness I don't know if these were the ones being discussed in this thread or not. In my experience the gauges and brass hammers look like the real thing but are functionally worthless. My point is that there are consequences to others based on our personal purchase decisions. I don't worry much about legality but I try to put my money where my values are and support small independent and creative businesses.

Bob Lang

Bob raised an interesting point in his comment - how well made is the Taylor Toolworks marking gauge. He mentioned that some he had seen that were based on the Tite-Mark did not have flat registration surfaces so I decided to compare the Tite-Mark to the Taylor gauge. Here are the two gauges on my table saw. I used the top of the table saw as a reference. It's about as flat as anything I have in my shop.

Marking-gauges-05.jpg

Then what I did was use a felt tip pen and mark the face of each gauge.

Marking-gauges-06.jpg

Than I rubbed the face of each marking gauge against my table saw top. The table saw top has some light scratches in it from years of use so it functioned as a flat, light abrasive. I rubbed each one about the same amount - just a few seconds each. Here's the Tite-Mark after rubbing.

Marking-gauges-07.jpg

You can see that the face is not flat - it's a bit higher around the outside.

And here's the Taylor after rubbing.

Marking-gauges-08.jpg

It's pretty flat. I'm not surprised because it should be fairly simple to grind that surface flat.

Now, I've used the Tite-Mark gauge quite a bit and never had any problem because its face was not perfectly flat. The amount it's off is so small that it just doesn't matter. I certainly would not choose one or the other based on the flatness of the faces.

Mike

[I went back and did some more testing on the two gauges. I'm convinced that, within my ability to analyze, the faces of the two gauges are equally flat. When I rubbed the Taylor gauge in the pictures above I think maybe the ink was still wet on it. By the time I did the Tite-Mark, the ink was dry and that accounted for the difference in the results.]

[paul cottingham]

Just to point out, there is no patent on the Tite-Mark - not even a design patent. The only patent that anyone has pointed to is the design patent on the Veritas marking gauge. So there's certainly no "gray area" of the law in the manufacture of the Taylor Toolworks marking gauge.

You may feel that your ethics would not allow you to purchase a product which is similar to another company's, and if so, you have every right to take that approach. The problem with that, however, is that almost every product has items copied from another product. The most obvious example is the Android smartphones and the Apple iPhones. There are many, many more examples, including computers, televisions, automobiles and I don't know what else. Just about every product in the world builds upon earlier products and copies many of their features.

Mike

Mike, what do I misunderstand about this, then? I'm not being difficult, I just don't understand.

The patent for the Tite Mark in the USA is US D517931 S1. You are not supposed to copy a patented item, even for personal use. But no one really goes after someone who makes a copy for himself. Additionally, companies that manufacture clones at the end of a patent life don't wait until after the 20 year patent expires to make the clones, they only wait that long to sell the clones. The day after the Fein patent expired on the oscillating tool, Bosch and several other manufacturers had their versions up for sale

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, what do I misunderstand about this, then? I'm not being difficult, I just don't understand.

The patent for the Tite Mark in the USA is US D517931 S1. You are not supposed to copy a patented item, even for personal use. But no one really goes after someone who makes a copy for himself. Additionally, companies that manufacture clones at the end of a patent life don't wait until after the 20 year patent expires to make the clones, they only wait that long to sell the clones. The day after the Fein patent expired on the oscillating tool, Bosch and several other manufacturers had their versions up for sale

The posting you refer to is in error - if you look up the referenced patent you will see that it was issued to Lee Valley and the subject matter is the Veritas marking gauge. You can see the patent here (well, a summary of it). It is a design patent rather than a utility patent.

It does not cover the Tite-Mark marking gauge and I've been unable to find any patent - design or utility - that covers the Tite-Mark marking gauge.

This information has been stated several times, in posts 16, 22, 23, 39 & 40.

Mike