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Thread: Preparing the chip breaker on LN#4

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brady View Post
    Leave it alone. Who so you think would most likely be the expert on this subject? If you have a question the LN folks could answer it.
    No. With all due respect to LN for their manufacturing expertise, their recommendation for controlling tearout is likely to be a high cutting angle, either using a high angle frog they sell, or a back bevel.

    All chipbreakers require a high angle at the leading edge to work well. Somewhere in the region of 50-80 degrees (the angle will affect where you position the chipbreaker behind the edge of the blade). All chipbreakers - LN, Veritas, Clifton - come standard with 30 degree leading edges. Stanley’s rounded chipbreaker is higher - I am not sure how to measure this, but it could be around 50 degrees or more.

    Tune the leading edge of every chipbreaker if you want the tearout-less performance you seek.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  2. #17
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    Thanks Mike.

    I would expect LN to be the absolute authority on manufacturing their plane and its basic use. I see this more like hot rodding.

    In any case, if I booger up a chip breaker, I can get a replacement, not a big deal. WRT my question, I think my cave dwelling elders might have some valuable input.


    Thanks Jim,

    I don’t have a micrometer, so no way to measure the shavings I’m getting, but 4 thou sounded thick. Lots of varying advice, but I’ve always thought I might be setting the chip breaker to far back, even though it’s pretty close.

    Interestingly, that video seems to show a relationship between the chipbreaker angle and the distance you can set it back from the edge (steeper angle allows more setback).

  3. #18
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    Thanks Derek. I appreciate you sharing your experience and also the instructional material you’ve written.

    Now to devise some type of jig to sharpen a secondary bevel at 70-80 deg!

  4. #19
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    Keegan, don't take the video literally. The planing there was a machine, not a hand plane. I would try 50 degrees first before going to 70/80 degrees.

    Use a digital angle box to create a guide.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #20
    We use a rounded bevel for the cap iron. This is the traditional method. I have used a rounded bevel which meets the plane iron at 80 degrees for 45 years.

    I have been to about a dozen Lie-Nielsen hand tool events. Their expertise is not at a high level.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wilkins View Post
    As part of all the information on the benefits of a closely set chip breaker I noticed that honing it was part of the equation. I'm set to work on the one from my Lie-Nielsen #4 but want to make sure I have it right before taking it to stone. The side that rests against the blade should be flat correct? Don't think that should take long on an LN cap iron. The other side should be hone to 45* or greater with 50* or higher optimum?
    The LN cap iron is a legacy of an originally poor design. The video below demonstrates the purpose and mode of operation of a cap iron. A steep angle, as Warren indicates, is all you need to grind to get the cap iron working properly, there's no specific angle. Isn't this information on the user manual or on LN's website? This is a pretty key feature if the plane is to be used to its full potential.

    https://youtu.be/c0N5pV8N1H0

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    We use a rounded bevel for the cap iron. This is the traditional method. I have used a rounded bevel which meets the plane iron at 80 degrees for 45 years.

    I have been to about a dozen Lie-Nielsen hand tool events. Their expertise is not at a high level.
    I also round the bevel with cap irons. I don’t fuss with exact angles, but aim for the very tip to be steeper than 45 degrees. I typically use a guide for sharpening, but find it much simpler to tune up a cap iron free-hand. Just pull it backwards across the stone and sweep it upward as you go. Only the very tip needs to be tuned up, so it doesn’t take long.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    The LN cap iron is a legacy of an originally poor design. The video below demonstrates the purpose and mode of operation of a cap iron. A steep angle, as Warren indicates, is all you need to grind to get the cap iron working properly, there's no specific angle. Isn't this information on the user manual or on LN's website? This is a pretty key feature if the plane is to be used to its full potential.

    https://youtu.be/c0N5pV8N1H0
    Thank you for that remarkably unnerving video. Makes me want to switch to BU planes.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Baney View Post
    Thank you for that remarkably unnerving video. Makes me want to switch to BU planes.
    You're welcome. Perhaps you should switch to BU planes.

  10. #25
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    Rafael, that is a very interesting video. Illustrates the importance of the cap iron. What date do you estimate the video? Towards the end they show a cap iron at a 90 degree bevel. Any Neanders play around with that angle?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rainey View Post
    Rafael, that is a very interesting video. Illustrates the importance of the cap iron. What date do you estimate the video? Towards the end they show a cap iron at a 90 degree bevel. Any Neanders play around with that angle?
    I increased the angle to 70-75 on my LN4 chipbreaker before some gnarly bloodwood I was working with stopped tearing. Since then I haven't had any tear out to speak of with that plane on any exotic I've come across. Perhaps there's some wood out there interlocked & wild enough to require 90...

  12. #27
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    That did the trick! Thanks for the help.

    After putting a 70ish degree secondary bevel on the chip breaker (LN new version) of my 4 1/2, I can now plane this white oak in either direction without tear out.

    plane.jpg

    Do straight shavings like the one in the picture mean the chip breaker is properly engaged? I thought I read that somewhere.

  13. #28
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    Do straight shavings like the one in the picture mean the chip breaker is properly engaged? I thought I read that somewhere.
    That seems to be a common theory.

    Though often my molding planes have shavings like that and there is no chip breaker other than the wedge.

    Round Plane Shaving.jpg

    If you are planing in either direction without tear out, something is working right.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #29
    Yes, but the real test is if you can plane those faces from either direction without tearout.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rainey View Post
    Rafael, that is a very interesting video. Illustrates the importance of the cap iron. What date do you estimate the video? Towards the end they show a cap iron at a 90 degree bevel. Any Neanders play around with that angle?
    I don't know the date of the video, I asked but got no response yet. I really don't measure the angle when I prepare a chipbreaker, I roll it on the stone to almost vertical, so it ends up being a very steep rounded bevel.

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