festool domino versus $1300 of other tools

[Ted Diehl]

It's funny to see this thread pop up today. I've been equipping my garage workshop for some serious woodworking in retirement. Yesterday, after reading reviews on the Festool Domino, I swallowed hard and ordered the Domino 500 with a systainer full of dominos from Tool Nut. After placing the order, I went back on Tool Nuts site and ordered the Festool CT Mini Hepa dust extractor. I wanted the CT mini for not only the Domino 500 but for all my other small tools like my Makita Track Saw and my palm sander. I'm currently building a cabinet for my garage and it seemed like a good idea to use the domino for this and other future projects.

[Prashun Patel]

It's a personal decision. Most domino users like me will tell you it is worth it and you can use it in ways that aren't obvious when you buy it, like for breadboards, apron to table slots. It excels in convenience vs other methods for making angles cross connections. It is great.

these days I tend to enjoy the process of manual cutting more and more. It does get less tedious. However, when I want to bang something out and don't want to sacrifice the quality of the end product I think it helps my profitability a good deal.

[John Sincerbeaux]

John
Have you ever done an informal comparison between the two? Pros and cons?
I've been looking at those Multi Routers for a long time, and just kind of wondered

I have a friend that was new to woodworking and like the OP, he needed a joinery tool. He bought a Domino and we used it together to build cabinets and some furniture for his kids. It's basically a biskit joiner (which I still use) but obviously so much better because of the variable sizes of tenons. It's super easy and actually fun to use.

I havebeen using my multi router for at least ten years. I make a lot of boxes and small tables. I do a ton of things on the multi router that would be impossible on ANY tool that I know of. I use my MR to create lock-set and hinge mortises. I made a vertical fence system that I can use with the pneumatic clamps to quickly and accurately perform multiple mortises on each side. I even use the MR to create compound inlay corners on my bombay shaped boxes.

I think for cabinets and most furniture, the domino would prob be a better choice. But like I said, for doing smaller, more detailed work including chairs etc, the MR is king.

[Greg R Bradley]

It didn't seem to take this long for clones of Track Saws, biscuit jointers, or Oscillating Multi tools to come out.

I think you will find it did take that long. These tools came out far before they became popular. I had a Festo track saw for about 25 years before I bought a Makita when they were introduced. My Fein Multimaster that just wore out is more like 30 years old.

[jack duren]

If I had $1300 to spend and my shop wasn't well stocked with tools yet I'd hold off on buying the domino. I'd buy a "few other tools to help with traditional M&T" and learn to master that part of the craft. Then I'd spend what I saved on more wood.

Unless you are in it for profit, is speed really that important?

Agree........................

[Robin Frierson]

I really like the MT I get from the Leigh MT jig. I also have the domino and it seems a compromise, some situations its hard to get a good size fit, one domino is too little but two too much type of situations. You can easily break a single #8 domino joint. Plus I find the glueups to be more exhausting with two mortises vs one with the jig. People compromise by only gluing the mortise was the advice I received.

My index pins are also off from left side to right side by 1/32 to 1/64 so I try to stay with the same pin through the process. I have only had the Domino XL for two projects so will give it more time, maybe I will fall in love with it later, but my initial impression is I still prefer the traditional MT. I am not in a huge hurry, retired, so dont mind spending the extra time to do pinned MTs with the Leigh. A lot of people who have the Leigh no longer use them, going with the Domino so you can buy them half price used now.

[Van Huskey]

John

I'd either run off a bunch of tenon stock, or just buy the individual bags of the sizes I would need at the time. That kit is pretty $$$$. It would be very easy to make the tenon stock in bulk yourself.

While it is indeed easy to cut your own stock I wanted to make a note about the Domino assortments. The assortments come with the bits for the sizes in the assortment, each Domino comes with one bit size so most people generally buy all the size bits sooner or later. If one does the math (for example on the assortment on for the 500) it is cheaper to buy the assortment since the bits are 2/3 or the assortment price and you get a Systainer to keep them in. Nothing is a bargain with Festool but it is a better deal. I always saw it the same way as you until I got ready to buy and did the math. Initially, there were sizes I thought I would never use, and I may have never used them if I hadn't had the bits and Dominos onhand but in retrospect I am happy I did.


I just wanted to add while I am not actibe on FOG I have read a lot there over the years and two things pop out about the Domino, one I have never read about anyone returning one but have read it multiple times about every other Festool since in most cases someone else either makes a better tool or a better value tool. The second theme is the Domino is almost always the leader in threads of the "what Festool should I buy first" genre. The other theme that pops up is when are the patents going to expire, which Cary brought up here, unfortunately it is going to be a while... That said when they do expire and everyone from Harbor Freight to Mafell is making them the question will no longer be whether to buy a portable floating tenon mortiser but simply which one to buy. There are a lot of ways to cut floating tenons from basically free homemade versions (which youtube and the net are covered with) to $5k plus free standing Euro machines and each has their benefits but IMO none of them are as quick, easy and accurate over as large a range of project types as the Domino but depening on what you do one of the others may be better suited to niches of work.

[John Densmore]

If I had $1300 to spend and my shop wasn't well stocked with tools yet I'd hold off on buying the domino. I'd buy a "few other tools to help with traditional M&T" and learn to master that part of the craft. Then I'd spend what I saved on more wood.

Unless you are in it for profit, is speed really that important?

What would those other tools be?

[jack duren]

What would those other tools be?

To know how to answer that question one would require knowing what one intends to make and what you have and don't have.

[Mike Henderson]

I bought a Domino and use it in a lot of my projects. There are lots of places where a loose tenon is appropriate, even if you feel it's not as strong as a regular M&T.

If you have a place where there will be high stress and you want to make the strongest joint, do a regular M&T. But for everything else, the Domino really makes things faster. I use mine a good bit.

Mike

[For example, when you're making a blade for a chest of drawers (the thing between two drawers that the upper drawer rides on), you could attach the four pieces with half lap joints. You don't need a lot of strength - you just need to hold everything in place. A Domino is fast in such an application. Making half laps usually takes some trial and error to get the half laps cut to the right depth. There are lots of other places where I've used a Domino. Once you have it, you start seeing a lot of applications.]

[Simon MacGowen]

I am in the game changer camp, because the DF500 did change my woodworking life. It is not about speed but efficiency. Speed is nothing if the joinery result is poor. You get more joinery work done in the same amount of shop time you have. Do you plan to make a lot of things? DF500 is used in all kinds of furniture or panel applications. If you aren't into furniture or large projects, it may not be the right tool.

"Tom Giles If I had $1300 to spend and my shop wasn't well stocked with tools yet I'd hold off on buying the domino. I'd buy a "few other tools to help with traditional M&T" and learn to master that part of the craft. Then I'd spend what I saved on more wood."

This is an alternative approach and only you can decide if it is right for you. It is chisel work, it is sawing work. Do you enjoy hand tools? Do you plan to spend time to develop the hand skills?

But that doesn't keep you from using DF500 as well, because hand tools and power tools are not mutually exclusive.

I sold my Mortising Machine soon after I learned how to use the Domino Joiner. Using a router and a jig to cut M&T is one approach, of course. But in terms of efficiency, it is day and night...like cutting the same 50 dovetail joints with a router and dovetail jig vs cutting them by hand.

Not to mention that Festool tools have high resale prices just in case you decide to get rid of them later.

Simon

[Jim Dwight]

I don't have a domino but it is in my "maybe one day" list. I am probably underinformed but I think of it as the only really unique tool Festool offers. I found a shoulder plane (Mine is a Stanley) VERY helpful. Trying to cut the tenons on the table saw perfectly or trim them perfectly with a chisel just didn't work great for me. So much easier to trim a little with a sharp plane. I cut mortises with a Jet hollow chisel mortiser. It works fine but I am sure there are situations I do not use a mortise and tenon joint now that I would if I had a domino. I think that is what it accomplishes. It makes it easy enough you use them where you wouldn't otherwise. I agree that I don't really need to be able to do things a lot quicker but I find that I just won't do things that take too much time. I will use another joint.

At least one of the magazines that tested joints tested a loose mortise and tenon the same size as the conventional M&T. The strength was lower but within what I would consider to be the uncertainty in their test methods. I think the difference was less than 10 lbs out of about 1400 lbs. Effectively the same. That is what it should be with modern glues. Correctly glued, there is no reason for a difference. With dominos, I think you have to work some to get the same area in the joint. Their typical 3/4 thick by 2.25 wide test piece is not an easy one to stack up the dominos in. Two dominos side by side is pretty wide for the width and stacked on top of each other there isn't really the thickness. But for most projects, I don't see any strength disadvantage for the domino. The 500 is limited to about a 1 inch deep mortise, however, which is not a lot for even a cabinet door frame. If I ever get one, I am thinking a 700 would be best, even with the significantly higher price, to get enough depth. But I could also argue I have the Jet for the bigger joints....

For around $500 you can have a decent shoulder plane and hollow chisel mortiser. If you need other tools too, I think that is a good way to go. But if you pretty much have everything you need and want a domino, go for it.

[Ben Rivel]

I have asked myself this same question many times. Still havent bought either but I keep going back and forth between the Domino 500 and a Leigh FMT Pro. Once you add all the accessories and such they are about the same cost. They also both have good dust collection options which is important to me but the one thing I really like that can be done with the Domino and not really the FMT Pro is using it like a biscuit joiner for aligning individual panels in a large glue up. That seems like a functionality I would enjoy having and like something that would make my life easier being that Im just a one man shop.

[Van Huskey]

While the 500 vs 700 wasn't part of the OP, I am in the 700 plus the Seneca adaptor and you have the capability of both the 500 and 700. The only issue is the greater heft of the 700, some fine the 500 easier to use and some find the weight and ergonomics of the 700 better. I understand that this is becoming a reall expensive hand power tool system if you go all in on the 700 and for some it will be worth it and for others it would be a silly useless stack of Systainers in the corner of the shop.

[Ben Rivel]

While the 500 vs 700 wasn't part of the OP, I am in the 700 plus the Seneca adaptor and you have the capability of both the 500 and 700. The only issue is the greater heft of the 700, some fine the 500 easier to use and some find the weight and ergonomics of the 700 better. I understand that this is becoming a reall expensive hand power tool system if you go all in on the 700 and for some it will be worth it and for others it would be a silly useless stack of Systainers in the corner of the shop.

Yea I love the idea of the 700 with the Seneca adapters and accessories but then the Domino becomes a crazy expensive tool. The 500 is already way expensive as it is. The 700 with adapters might push someone already on the fence to not even bother at all with one.