Bailey 4 1/2 Advice Requested

[John Towns]

Nobody else has mentioned an obvious possibility, so I will. Just based on the photo, and it's hard to see, is it possible that this was simply stored with something sitting on top of it so that it gathered patina at different rates? It really doesn't look like a repair from here.

Patrick,

Thanks for your response.

The 'line' continues across the top of the side. There does not appear to be any 'repair' evidence from the inside. the different 'shades' appeared when sanding the side, the orange shade is rust that was not totally removed by flat sanding. And yet, when I run my finger across, I feel nothing.

I am not going to stress over this, and concentrate on repairing the tote.

John

John

[Bill McNiel]

Nobody else has mentioned an obvious possibility, so I will. Just based on the photo, and it's hard to see, is it possible that this was simply stored with something sitting on top of it so that it gathered patina at different rates? It really doesn't look like a repair from here.

Given the OP's responses to all the questions, I think this is probably the answer. Just MHO.

[Stew Denton]

Hi John,

The brittle cast also made me hesitate to suggest the punch and hammer approach. If you try it be darned careful. I would put it in the same category as bending the bolt...it is risky. I think my approach would be the penetrating oil and time. IF that didn't eventually work I would try a thin hack saw blade in the crack in the handle to saw through the tote rod. Once you saw through it, the top of the tote should slide off, and you can work on the bottom piece. Once the bottom piece of the tote is free, you can use more penetrating oil on the stub for the tote rod that is left in the body of the plane. As above, a replacement tote rod can be had for about $10.

To me it looks like some elbow grease, some time and effort, but you should end up with a very good and useful plane, and for a pretty decent price.

Stew

[John Towns]

I decided that it was prudent to cut the tote screw to remove the tote. The tote was already broken clear through and the screw was bent. I think you can see a bend just above the cut.
20161110_193538_resized.jpg

Also when I cleaned it up a bit you maybe can see the inside of where the line is.
20161110_193423_resized.jpg

Next I will be making a new tote and looking online for a new tote screw.

Thanks again for all your help and advice. Here are a couple of other shots:
20161110_193411_resized.jpg
20161110_193601_resized_1.jpg

I really like the extra weight of this plane and am very much looking forward to finishing it and using it.

One additional question, if I may. Do any of you repaint the interior of the plane? Or do you leave it as is?

John

[Jim Koepke]

Hi John,

That screw looks like a replacement. At the time you plane was made the tote screw was a shaft with a brass nut on top. Hopefully someone didn't mess up the threads with the replacement screw. If it has the same threads, 12-20, as the frog screws or the front knob shaft it should be fine.

One additional question, if I may. Do any of you repaint the interior of the plane? Or do you leave it as is?

Yes, I prefer to have a fresh paint job on my planes when time allows. I have used mostly spray enamel. Home Depot used to have a black enamel spray paint for $1 a can. I haven't checked recently.

Other folks have painted them in their favorite colors. Most folks worry more about the usability value more than the collector value of these old planes.

jtk

[John Towns]

Hi John,

That screw looks like a replacement. At the time you plane was made the tote screw was a shaft with a brass nut on top. Hopefully someone didn't mess up the threads with the replacement screw. If it has the same threads, 12-20, as the frog screws or the front knob shaft it should be fine.


jtk

Jim,
I will check the frog screw when I get home.

I'm curious...you said "when your plane was made"... approximately what year was that?

Thanks again for all your help.

John

[Bill Houghton]

Jim,
I will check the frog screw when I get home.

I'm curious...you said "when your plane was made"... approximately what year was that?

Thanks again for all your help.

John

You can get an idea of the range of years within which some makes of bench planes were made by looking at the "type studies." For Stanley, a good one is here (look for the "type study" link at top right): http://rexmill.com/. For Millers Falls planes: http://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/benchtypes.htm. I'm not familiar with this page for Sargent planes, but it could be a start: https://img.sauf.ca/pictures/2015-08...e558e59f59.pdf

[John Towns]

You can get an idea of the range of years within which some makes of bench planes were made by looking at the "type studies." For Stanley, a good one is here (look for the "type study" link at top right): http://rexmill.com/. For Millers Falls planes: http://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/benchtypes.htm. I'm not familiar with this page for Sargent planes, but it could be a start: https://img.sauf.ca/pictures/2015-08...e558e59f59.pdf

Bill,

Thanks! Excellent information on types on the RexMill site. Just what I wanted to know.

John

[Tom Vanzant]

Looks to be a type 10, 1907-1909. As Jim K said, the tote screw is a replacement, maybe from a type 17. Hopefully, it is a 12-20 thread. Check the bay for a type 17 tote screw, but a long shot.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm curious...you said "when your plane was made"... approximately what year was that?

The easy answer is between 1902 and 1907. That would be a type 9 by the type studies. There are actually different versions of type 9. Yours looks to be one of the earlier versions. The earliest used a lateral adjuster left over from previous years with a patent date of 7-24-88 stamped on them. In the later years of the type the casting was changed a bit to be more like the types 10 & 11.

jtk

[Glen Canaday]

Yes, type 9. No frog adjustment screw. Those were introduced in 1907.

Does no one read my posts?

[Tom Vanzant]

The threaded hole below the brass adjusting knob says it's a type 10 adjustable frog. None of the photos show whether there is a threaded hole in the base for the adjusting screw. John T, is there such a hole?

[Stew Denton]

Hi John,

If the existing tote has a clean break, and the two pieces fit together nicely, then you can probably glue it up and have a good repair. I have done that, followed by sanding. If there are no voids to fill, I follow the sanding by spray lacquer. I have had very good luck with that approach at times, and the repair was virtually undetectable.

I would go with a tote rod that is for the original, rather than a type 17, and you will need a tote rod nut as well. Often on the auction site, you can find the nut and rod sold as a unit for one money. Check the upper handle of the tote to see whether it takes the tote bolt screw or the type 17 tote rod. The type 9 brass nut receiver in the tote has a square bottom.

The original tote is Brazilian rose wood, and as such is very desirable to have on a plane.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

The threaded hole below the brass adjusting knob says it's a type 10 adjustable frog. None of the photos show whether there is a threaded hole in the base for the adjusting screw. John T, is there such a hole?

Sorry to disagree Tom. I think the threaded hole you mention is actually the hole for the lever cap screw. They go all the way though the casting. The exit point of the hole in the casting is in the wrong plane to work as a frog adjusting screw.

This site has the different frogs with dates and types:

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/Ba...rogCompare.jpg

jtk

[Tom Vanzant]

Jim, I stand corrected! I broke down a #6 T9 and there's the lever cap screw hole.