Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Flatness of fence on Minimax S400P bandsaw

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298

    Flatness of fence on Minimax S400P bandsaw

    Hello fellow woodworkers!

    Although I have been reading various threads with interest over time, this is my first thread - so, forgive me if I make mistakes in either format or content!

    I bought a Minimax bandsaw in December 2015 and have not had a lot of free time to play with it since. While I was able to fine tune the contact points on the bottom of the fence so that it now sits plumb to the table, I discovered that the vertical plane has a "bump" near the middle. When putting a straightedge on the fence (clamped at one end; gap at the other) I measure a total deflection of .028 inch. I have contacted the dealer and was told that such an anomaly is within manufacturing tolerances (ie they do not inted to do anything about it). There is a one-year warranty covering the machine and I want to address problems before December.


    Here are a few questions I am broadcasting to the community:



    1. Have people experienced similar issues and what was the outcome when approaching the manufacturer (Minimax or otherwise)? Am I wasting my time with Minimax with this particular problem?

    2. While I fully realize the S400P is an industrial machine (ie volume production) that is not necessarily designed to win "the war of thousands of an inch", how straight does the fence need to be on a bandsaw (ie what is the commonly accepted tolerance)? I have seen posts showing the use of a "short fence" (ie extending barely beyond the back of the blade), which suggests that in some (or all?) situations the only point of contact of significance is "up front" of the blade.

    3. The "imperfections" resulting from the current condition of the fence are easily corrected on larger pieces (surfacing with jointer or planer) but are a bit more problematic with thinner material (veneer), since I do not own a surface sander. Are my expectations of the machine (using the right combination of precision of the machine and quality of blade) realistic or am I shooting at an unreachable target?

    4. I realize that one cure for the problem is to bring the fence to a machine shop; has anybody had success with such an approach? Would there be any downside?

    Have a good day!

    Jacques


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,739
    Hello and welcome to the saw mill creek.The fence on my Bandsaw was not flat enough for my liking so I took the time to flatten it myself.
    Using 3m spray adhesive I glued 3 sheets of sandpaper 120 or 180 to my surface plate.
    And rubbed till I was happy lots of cleaning is need because the Aluminum loads the paper pretty quick.
    Its just another task we all have to do.A small price to pay to have the joy of making something out of wood.

    Aj

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,647
    I would contact MiniMax directly and see what they have to say about it. A deviation of 0.028" is not much, but sure would be annoying/problematic for high precision work. If MM won't replace the fence then I'd either do as Andrew described, or screw a piece of wood to the face of the fence, shimming where needed, and then joint that flat.

    John

  4. #4
    Believe this or not, there is no "standard" or "tolerance" for any woodworking machine manufactured in the EU. For all the norms and conformities these machines have to comply with from a safety standpoint, you will never see in any manufacturer's literature or documentation state something like, "We guarantee this or that surface to be within so many thousanthds over such-and-such distance". Not Minimax, nor anyone else. That being said, if a part is out enough that it creates performance issues, I might take it up with my dealer. Personally speaking, I would get a Centauro cast iron fence once in a while that was twisted or potato-chipped. I typically offered to replace the fence for the customer or, if they were willing to handle the machining themselves, sling them some blades for their trouble but that's really between the customer and the dealer. I'm not excusing an improperly machined fence but as Andrew pointed out, if the machine otherwise does what you expect and it's something you could fix yourself at home, I might consider where my energy is best spent. Just my 2-cents and I hope you get a speedy resolution.

    Erik

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    Andrew:

    thanks for suggestion; I am glad you were able to solve the problem. My main challenge stems from the fact that the fence is a cast iron one. I will need to see if I have enough "elbow power" to undertake this job!!!

    J.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    Eric:

    I found out this afternoon about your change of career; thanks for taking the time to reply to my query at this busy time!

    Your input is much appreciated as it gives me a baseline to work from since you have been dealing with these machines for many years. I will figure out a way to fix the problem without losing sleep over it - life is too short for that!

    Good luck in your future endeavours!

    J.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    John:

    ... it looks like you are two steps ahead of me! A call to Minimax was next on my list and I was considering the option of the wooden fence - you just validated this option!!!

    Thanks,

    J.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southeastern PA
    Posts
    140
    I experienced something similar with my MM slider recently. I believe .028" is outside the tolerances of what I would consider accurate. .028" is 1/32". To me, that's a noticeable issue. My solution was probably a bit easier as I had to adjust my slider in relation to the blade. While it was not covered in the manual and no one at MM walked me through it, it took me about 2 hours messing with the bolts that hold the slider to the saw to get it to .005". That's a tolerance I can live with.

    Good luck with MM when you call.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques Gagnon View Post
    Eric:

    I found out this afternoon about your change of career; thanks for taking the time to reply to my query at this busy time!

    Your input is much appreciated as it gives me a baseline to work from since you have been dealing with these machines for many years. I will figure out a way to fix the problem without losing sleep over it - life is too short for that!

    Good luck in your future endeavours!

    J.
    Thanks, Jacques! I'm not saying anyone should have to live with a defective part but will add that if I were to poll my customers, a great many of them probably use the fence more as a platform for jigs or attachments. I've seen guys attach that HMW white plastic, phenolic-faced ply, tall aluminum extrusion, you name it. In the shop, we drilled and tapped the MM bandsaw fences for all sorts of jigs...







    Anyhow, just some food for thought.

    As Mike pointed out, I don't think SCM Group tech support on the phone would be able to do much. That's not a knock against them: I personally know all those guys and they are very knowledgeable, professional techs but the issue is, their main focus is advanced machinery, not classical units like bandsaws. In cases like yours, it typically is the dealer who needs to address the issue. Either with their own tech support or by handling a warrantly replacement claim (if called for). For example, if the customer bought the MM16 from me, then it's expected that I ought to be able to help them troubleshoot or order the replacement part, if needed. Hope this helps and best of luck with it.

    Erik

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques Gagnon View Post
    Andrew:

    thanks for suggestion; I am glad you were able to solve the problem. My main challenge stems from the fact that the fence is a cast iron one. I will need to see if I have enough "elbow power" to undertake this job!!!

    J.
    Onec again I was wrong.My suggestion will not work for cast Iron.No one should try to attempt it.Its a will waste your time and money.
    I did get my Davis and wells tablesaws cast iron fence ground by Shafer grinding.It set me back 125..
    Then I scraped it super flat.It took me about 6 or 7 hours one side.
    Sorry I couldn't help
    Good luck

    Aj

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    Hello Michael!

    I have contacted MM via the website; awaiting an answer. Glad to hear that you were able to fix your problem without too much trouble.

    Cheers,

    J.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    Eric:

    Thanks for the useful information (and pictures!) and thoughtful advice. I now have, thanks to the various inputs, a few options to explore and I better understand what the overall context is.

    J.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    9,447
    First, if it were mine and I was concerned about it I would PROBABLY flatten it myself using Andrew's method.

    Now, if you ask me how flat my MM bandsaw fence is I couldn't tell you... The MM fence is not really what I consider a bandsaw fence, it is a very rigid base upon which one can anchor a bandsaw fence. Is anyone really going to resaw a 14" board on that stubby fence? While most steel framed saw manufacturers have gone to a tall aluminum extrusion MM still supplies that short heavy lump. The average BS fence today can easily deflect over 1/32" without a whole lot of pressure. My point is if you are going to use near the capacity of the 16/400 resaw wise you are going to have to build a taller fence and while it may be more trouble than other companies fences you will end up with a better more rigid fence in the end.

    I am not apologizing for Minimax just pointing out before you go down that rabbit hole consider how that 1/32" it going to actually impact your work product.

    PS the gentleman in the pictures Erik posted is Sam Blasco and everyone of those and the other pictures of him an the MM saws floating around the interwebs each contain many useful nuggets of bandsaw information. If you haven't already watched it try out this video with Sam and the MM16

    Last edited by Van Huskey; 09-19-2016 at 11:54 AM.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,492
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques Gagnon View Post
    Andrew:

    thanks for suggestion; I am glad you were able to solve the problem. My main challenge stems from the fact that the fence is a cast iron one. I will need to see if I have enough "elbow power" to undertake this job!!!

    J.
    Cast iron is much softer than you think. Some quality 180 grit material on a surfacing plate and a vertical reference clamped in my bench vise allow me to setup a reliable 90* set of surfaces for flattening plane soles and the like. Something similar would work for your fence if it uses perpendicular surfaces. Before I had the plate I used an extrusion clamped to my tablesaw fence (shimmed with tape for alignment) and the tablesaw's top. A machinists square for setup and for checking progress should get you much closer than you are now.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    298
    Thanks for sharing your experience and the background information.

    After reading all the input received I realized that I may have been distracted by a couple of things, including the notion that a "top quality" machine should be flawless. The reality is probably closer to the fact that nothing is perfect and that some imperfections are easier to fix than others or, more to your point, that they may not really matter in most cases. While I did not expect the fence to be used for resawing tall boards without first being fitted with a high subfence, I was distracted by numbers (in this case relatively small) and lost sight of the other factors that play in the equation.

    Thank you for sharing the videos; as it happens I have watched those when shopping for the saw and they strongly influenced my choice (this may be the reason for my surprise at having to deal with "imperfections"!).

    Soliciting and receiving feedback from fellow woodworkers results in enhanced learning through other people's experience; this thread has been a valuable source of information for me.

    Conclusion:

    I will make a subfence that will provide me with a flat, plumb surface, while allowing for resawing tall pieces. The back of the fence will account for the "bump" on the cast iron fence, which, as you say, will act as a sturdy base. I may try to resurface the fence myself or bring it to a machine shop - not sure yet. Enough wondering about imperfections and time to go now have some fun in the shop!

    Thanks to everyone who contributed to this exchange. I look forward to engage in other threads in the future!

    Jacques

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •