Shaper panel raising cutter

[David Kumm]

Hear you Joe. I did some cuts on my 3 hp SECO that now scare the crap out of me. Until you learn a little about machines, it is easy to stretch their limits. Dave

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Mark,

Here is the pic of one of the spindle heads.
You can see two pins from the top section. It is difficult to see but the third ring from the bottom also has two set screws to keep it in place.
So, in this design, the force from large cutters won't be transmitted to the center bolt, I guess.
The cutter is held only by friction from the top, though.


20160905_125843.jpg

[Joe Calhoon]

Susumu, that is a cap designed for reverse rotation. The set screw in the spacer is a new one for me.

[mreza Salav]

sorry, to jump in here: are you guys talking about the cutter coming loose on the spindle (in certain operations) or the whole spindle (shaft) coming loose? I'm getting a bit confused. I have a generic 3HP shaper (similar to Delta/Grizzly) with 3/4" spindle and I've used it mostly with double nut setup. My understanding is that the bottom of the spindle (where it mounts) has a taper with a notch. So I wasn't worried about the spindle coming loose if it is rotating one way or the other.

[Martin Wasner]

I think they're just talking about the retaining nut. Not the whole spindle coming out.

[Andy Giddings]

Joe, Susumu - according to the manual (at least my interpretation as it's not explained clearly) the ring with the set screws goes immediately above the cutter(s) and the screws are meant to be torqued very lightly (signified with a "feather" :-)). They merely act to stop the cutter(s) moving when you lift the whole spindle out. I think if you overtighten the screws it will mark the spindle (causing problems with tool removal) and interfere with the clamping force applied by the cap.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

If I can add this to the conversation.. after having machined our own doors in our custom shop since I was a kid in the 70`s.. and me personally for the past 20 odd years - we use both RP cutters that are above and below the panel material.

I prefer the cutter below the panel for one main reason, the shaving and chips go straight back into the dust hood under the table and very little gets ejected out. If your panel material is uniform thickness, the tongue is still machined to uniform thickness. I also use a sub top (usually MDF) set onto the machine top, to prevent any scratches from occurring on the panel face.

The cutters that sit above the panel material tend to throw a lot more shavings up and out past the fence, making a lot more mess. Not much else different IMO in terms of machining quality or set up, etc.

Either way is IMO just as safe, if set up properly and power fed. I also use a safety aluminum disk, a little larger diameter than the cutter sitting on top of it. Available in all sizes from LA Weaver.

We had the Freud set years ago - although I prefer the modern insert carbide sets I now use from other makers, the Freud cut fine if kept sharp. You can lap the face of the inserts on a fine diamond hone.

[Mel Fulks]

Andrew ,glad that is working for you. I can see that could work with a "planted " (nailed in moulding ) but for panels made to go in a machine cut groove the chances of getting a trouble free fit would not be good for most of us as just a few thousandths can be a big deal. Few planers cut exactly the same on both sides. The makers of the tooling see a self interest in safety and intend the cutters to be used counter clockwise. Standard for all stock panel cutters is counter clockwise panel face up. They will custom make some cutters in any direction configuration desired, but I believe they would decline to get involved with your method.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks David,

Yes, mine is reversible. Also the arbor is not threaded. So, I assume the clockwise rotation won't increase the risk. It's just I'm not used to the opposite feed direction.
Also, I have a feeder but haven't tried the opposite direction either. I'll try it too.

That's the way to do it, cutter under the work, use the feeder, also safety fingers on the fence opening so the panel can't tip into the opening in the fence................Regards, Rod.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Andrew ,glad that is working for you. I can see that could work with a "planted " (nailed in moulding ) but for panels made to go in a machine cut groove the chances of getting a trouble free fit would not be good for most of us as just a few thousandths can be a big deal. Few planers cut exactly the same on both sides. The makers of the tooling see a self interest in safety and intend the cutters to be used counter clockwise. Standard for all stock panel cutters is counter clockwise panel face up. They will custom make some cutters in any direction configuration desired, but I believe they would decline to get involved with your method.

Most "modern" shapers I am aware of (since the 90's) are designed to run either way.

Most tool manufacturers I know and deal with, will make my tooling any way I ask (direction of cut, over or under).

If your planer is that far out of whack, well, all I can say it wouldn't be in my shop. My 20" planer cuts within one thousandth over the 20" - I assume any better piece of equipment in a working shop should be tuned up similarly. Besides, we run the backside of the panel (which is below the frame) through the wide-belt sander before shaping the profile, to both pre-sand and to calibrate the panel thickness. I've never had an issue, in machining many thousands of doors, with fitting my panel to frame. I'll also add we do not use any panel spacers nor pin the panels. My father taught me to fit the panel into the frame tight enough as for it not to rattle or move with the door opening or closing, but loose enough to float freely seasonally. Yes, it takes a good set up. Not an issue with good equipment and tooling.

In terms of saying one way is "the" way - not in my experience. Both ways are valid and both are used. And again, both have strengths and possible weaknesses. But far better chip collection is my reason to choose the way I do, as in my case I see no difference in machining quality up or down.

[Mel Fulks]

yes ,the machines turn either way, but default tooling direction is counter clockwise. With small stuff like cabinet sets safety is not a big issue, indeed even though the cabinet sets are made to run face down counter clockwise many insist on running them face up. They will make you up a set going the other way. With large cutters they are more careful. I can't remember the exact circumstances of my inquiry but one company told me they will not make some of the larger profiles ,which they consider inherently directional to run clockwise. Certainly I believe some will make anything,especially for repeat customers. Context is important for forum content; OP is clearly a beginner who needs specific advice , not anything goes. No one is asking for universal compliance.

[Mike Kees]

I am also new to using actual shaper cutters on my shaper. I have read this entire thread with intent to learn more. My question ; counter clockwise rotation is "forward" and clockwise is "reverse" ? My shaper (steel city) is opposite to this. Is my switch wired backwards compared to most shapers ? Thanks to all the people who have posted on this thread.

[Cary Falk]

I would say it depends on the shaper. My 3hp Grizzly had CCW as forward. My 5hp Laguna has CCW as reverse.

[Mark Wooden]

Mike Kees

I am also new to using actual shaper cutters on my shaper. I have read this entire thread with intent to learn more. My question ; counter clockwise rotation is "forward" and clockwise is "reverse" ? My shaper (steel city) is opposite to this. Is my switch wired backwards compared to most shapers ? Thanks to all the people who have posted on this thread.

Forward and reverse switches are really more specific to the way the motors are wired, some consider CW forward, some CCW. I guess it depends on which way your looking at it.

Whats important is that the operator of the machine knows what direction the spindle is turning, and understands what forces are in play, i.e. what causes things to remain tight and what can cause things to loosen. Know what the "twelve movements of freedom" are is very helpful- https://books.google.com/books?id=xP...reedom&f=false

I suggest marking "CCW" & "CW" on your machines next to the switch with a sharpie. I did on mine.

[Mike Kees]

Thanks for the idea Mark, I will take my sharpie to that switch.