New to DC - any advice is appreicated

[Jason Egan]

Thanks James!

So I'll start looking at a bigger unit - but my budget was more at the 3hp level. So, just for discussion - if I went with aG1030Z2P for example - and ditched the bags/filters and vented outside (obviously I would be looking for a way to contain chips like vent into an open can) - then I wouldn't need a more expensive cyclone or canister filter system? That is a 3hp system - even if I did the same on a 5hp system - venting outside would avoid any filters or separation?

Thank you,
Jason

[Jason Egan]

Yeah... I should have mentioned budget - it is more at the 3hp - $800 rage - hadn't even looked at some of these brands. I'll probably have to have something smaller for the time being Thank you though!

Jason

[Jason Egan]

Thanks for the great info Jebediah. I had looked at oneida a long time ago - just to pricey for me right now. But I didn't know you could have them do the design service... wonder if they will do it for a different system maybe if they don't know. I'll look at their systems again.

Jason

[John K Jordan]

John, I'd be very interested in seeing your closet setup - just what I'm trying to do. Maybe inside can be an option... thank you!
Jason

Do you happen to live near East TN? That would be the best way to see it! I'm close to Knoxville.

It's a little tight for picture taking inside the closet but I could try to describe it. I built a 4'x8' little room in the back corner of the wood shop with 2x6 walls, staggered stud construction with insulation, insulation above. The closet houses the big ClearVue cyclone, a 60 gal compressor, and some electrical components.

I installed double doors for 5' wide access but put the doors don't face the shop area (they are harder to insulate as well as the walls) but open into a bay area which has big rollup doors, makes it easier to empty the bin too.

The ducts are all 6' PVC. All horizontal ducts are above the ceiling in the trusses. This was an engineering feat to plan them for straight runs without even notching a single truss! Since the cyclone input is lower than the ceiling, I made a gradual angle upwards to get above the ceiling. To do this I had to put the cyclone in the far corner of the closet. To design this, I temporarily assembled the cyclone upside down on the floor of the shop, drew lines for the walls, and make cardboard cutouts to give me the exact length and compound angles needed to make everything fit with standard PVC fittings. (I used a lot of 22.5" fittings to get gentle turns.) I had everything drawn out in detail before I built the closet.

Since the shop has HVAC, I built an air return duct from plywood that also snaked through the trusses but with some 90-deg turns and spray rubber coating inside to dampen any sound coming through the duct. This picture shows the main duct in the ceiling heading towards the DC just off the picture to the lower left. The hole for the air return to the shop is at the left. The wye splits into two primary branches.

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Since the DC and air compressor are out of sight in the closet I ran both the air and the electrical controls for both to the main shop. I have cut off switches, bit full alarm, remote receiver, and all air compressor dryers, regulator, gauges and valves where I can access them from the main shop.

Since both the DC and compressor have 5 hp motors, I ran big copper to the closet and split it there with a sub panel. (The box on the right is a separate circuit with for 110v for the room and DC control.)

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This is the general layout that shows where I stuck the closet:

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This has worked out well for me. I spent a LOT of time planning before I built the shop. Also, I was able to build it all myself so things got done exactly the way I wanted them. (I did hire out the concrete finishing and setting the trusses/roofing.) It did take a long time with a crew of just me!

JKJ

[James Gunning]

Jason,

Dust Collection is one of those things most of us tend to get into incrementally. The problem with that approach is that's the most expensive way to do it. The Grizzly units you are looking at are single stage units. Meaning, there is only one stage of separation for the dust/chips. In this case the filters are all that keep the chips out of the rest of the shop. It wouldn't be very practical to vent one of these outside since it would just blow everything out and eventually you would have a large pile of chips under the vent pipe. If you lived in the country, perhaps that would be possible. What we really need right from the start is a two stage system where the majority of the dust/chips are being separated from the air by a cyclone and the finest remaining dust caught by the filters. Or at this point you could exhaust the air from the cyclone outside and eliminate the filters altogether.

Budget is always what tends to drive these decisions, but over time, using a DC system where you are forced into very frequent filter cleaning (which is inevitable with a single stage system) you will want to go to a much better method, a cyclone. That will result in paying twice. Once for the Grizzly DC and then later for the cyclone. The duct system is another place where things tend to be done in increments. Usually a system with ducts too small in diameter initially, with a change to properly sized ducts later on.

I can assure you from experience that the trash can separators do not work. Also, bag filters will always leak enough dust to keep everything in your shop (including your lungs) well coated with dust. Even the supposed 1 micron ones. Unless they are truly enormous they don't have the filter capacity of the canister filters.

You have a large shop and plumbing that space with ducting will not be cheap. It depends on how you do it, but will probably cost as much as the DC unit itself.

[John K Jordan]

Jason,
Dust Collection is one of those things most of us tend to get into incrementally. The problem with that approach is that's the most expensive way to do it....
...You have a large shop and plumbing that space with ducting will not be cheap. It depends on how you do it, but will probably cost as much as the DC unit itself.

That is truth. In my previous two shops tackling dust collection was such a seemingly insurmountable effort I just stuck together shop vacs and air cleaner and fans and hoped for better DC "some day".

When I designed the new shop from the dirt up I was determined to do it right and build in DC from the first sketches. I am SO glad I did! With cyclone and ducts tucked away it's almost like it's not there until I use it. Remote switches at the major tools give no excuses for not turning it on even for a single cut. The collection is amazing. Life is good.

By shopping around you might find good deals on 6" pvc ducts and fittings. Surprisingly, the local ACE hardware store beat everyone on the 6" fittings, even the wholesale plumbing supply houses. One wholesaler was the best source for the SD pipe. And when I asked about a pile of pipes with cracks or breaks the yard guy said I could have all I wanted. I did all the power and control wiring myself so that was just material costs. I did buy blast gates and flex ducts which were not cheap.

Not to candy coat it, installation was a HUGE effort. I didn't keep up with the hours but I spread it over a bunch of months. (Still not done.) I would hate to do this over in another shop - I hope I never move again!

Even if you phase in the installation and only hook up one tool at first I don't think you will ever be sorry installing a good cyclone. If the wyes are added to the main duct for all the other tools then capped off until needed, adding additional branches and drops will be easy later.

BTW, one useful thing I added is a 4" gate feeding a shop vac hose for cleanup around the lathe, and can connect another longer hose that will reach anywhere in the shop.

JKJ

[Michael Weber]

I have to say while I don't know much about dust collection systems I do have a small Onida cyclone with a third party 2HP blower. It's been vented outside for years toward a large concrete slab and I have never seen a spec of dust much less chips. Maybe others are talking about venting outside without going through a cyclone?

[Jason Egan]

Thank you - nice to see how well that closet worked inside the shop!

[Jason Egan]

Thanks John! I'm planning on putting my 80gal air compressor in the closet as well - so this was very helpful! thank you!

I'm in North Texas... but a field trip would have been fun!

Jason

[Jason Egan]

Thanks for the comments on approaching this DC issue with price in mind... I am starting to see that just like all the other tools I have cheaping out on it will just result in another purchase down the road... and 1 cheap and 1 right tool are always more expensive than just 1 right tool

I do live in the country and can vent outside with no problem - I wouldn't just vent on the ground... it would go into a container that I could empty - there would be dust and chips on the ground but that would be ok. I think that is one point I'm hung up on - if I just had a bag type DC single stage and it all vented outside into a bin then it sounds like all the fine dust and chips would be outside. I thought that cyclones helped protect the impeller as well - but it sounds like it is really for preserving the filters, and if I vent all outside then maybe neither will really matter?

Thanks again for your comments James - really appreciate it. Ducting is a big deal as well - I'm working on that plan now as well... thank you!
Jason

[David Kumm]

Look for used collectors on CL or Ebay. Torit commercial units with a vfd can be had for $1000 if you are patient, but even 3-5 hp bagger well within your budget. Given that you may not need the bags make used a real bargain as the bags usually need replacing. Dave

[James Gunning]

Jason,

It's definitely possible to vent everything outside. I remember seeing a shop on a farm that did just that. Actually the chips were directed into a shed just outside the shop. The shed acted as a bin and the chips accumulated there. I may have this wrong, but I recall they were then used as animal bedding or some other similar use. Or maybe they were just burned periodically. If you did something like that, you could just pipe the output of the blower outside to some kind of collection bin. That bypasses the need for a cyclone or filters.

It would pass all the chips through the impeller, but all the single stage DC's do that anyway. A consideration is the type of impeller your blower has. The Grizzly units you linked to both have cast aluminum impellers. Those would not be the best choice for years of chips running through them. An steel radial impeller would be a safer choice.

If you do vent outside, be aware of the need for make up air to be drawn into your shop.

[William C Rogers]

Jason, my system is about as economical as it gets. I bought a used 3hp Jet 1900 DC ($225) and added a eBay cyclone ($250 with shipping). Mine system is inside venting outside. I have gable vents along both walls for makeup air. I'll eventually enclose the DC for noise reduction.
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I used 6" 30ga duct, but you need to put plywood rings around 30ga straight pipe or it will collapse. If you can get 26ga straight for a good price that would be more ideal, however I would not pay the premium for 26ga fittings as 30ga works fine. Plastic is another option. My shop is 30 X 50 and I spent $175 for pipe and fittings for a total of 100' run. Another $45 for rivets, crimper and tape. $30 for a relay and remote. I bought my blast gates from Led Valley for another $100. Total investment was about $825. I'm very happy with the performance. I made about 10 end grain cutting boards that I ran through my drum sander. This is a picture of the 55 gal collection drum after sanding the boards. 1/3 on the bottom is chips and the rest is dust from the sander.
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This is outside at the exit. Just a light dust on the trailer fender. Can't see anything on surrounding ground.
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