jumping in the vortex

[Chance Raser]

Chance,

Given your experience in building things, have you considered building a bowl lathe?

A bowl lathe is basically very simple. A couple pillow blocks and a shaft for a spindle. A metal lathe and welder will help. The lathe framework could be made primarily of wood.

Google on "build a bowl turning wood lathe". Lots of info there.

Prior to the "super" lathes like Oneway, Robust, PM, etc, etc there weren't many choices in commercially available large bowl lathes so shop building was about the only option. Over the years I can recall at least three shop made bowl lathes being used by professional turning shops, one was in a metal spinning shop.

If in your local area you have access to scrap yards and surplus outfits you might be able to pull it off with your $600 budget.

Doug, Doug Doug, Omg. Do you know what you've just done? Just sent me on a 2 hour long diy lathe research binge, and I am confident I could build something that would be perfect for what I want.

BUT I need to learn the basics first, I need to get turning to be my hobby now and then I will build a bowl lathe when my skills advance.

So I am very seriously looking for two things right now, a good band saw and a good grinder. If I come across a good deal on a decent table saw I might buy it, but I am considering that back burner right now.

[Chance Raser]

. I would like to suggest to you to try turning bowls out o 2x6 construction lumber (pick up free scraps from houses under construction) to learn the tool movement to get clean cuts and also learning to get really sharp tools. You can see improvement fairly fast doing repetitive pieces and you don't have to worry about ruining expensive wood. Cut some pieces into sections to get a good look at wall thickness. Have fun. Welcome to vortex.

This is a great suggestion and I will be on the look out for 2x6 or similar. Thanks

Related to the bandsaw issue.......the bandsaw is much more versatile for turners than a tablesaw, unless segmenting is the big thing you are after. I have that Grizzly G0555LX model. That is a fine 14" class saw. Does it come with a riser kit? If it is in good shape $300 is a super price.

Based on this and JKJ below I am going to go look at the grizzly tomorrow. No riser kit, but it is supposedly very lightly used 1 year old.

1/2 HP for a 12" disk sander? Yes, it'll work. I have an old 9" Craftsman lathe with an outboard 10" disk and am currently using it for sanding. Could I push so hard on the disk that I might be able to get the motor to stall? Perhaps, but that hasn't happened in the past 3 to 5 years of normal use. So, I'd say that it would work fine.

Then I think turning (pardon the pun) the craftsman into a sander later will definitely be the plan, thanks.

Contact "Arizona Woodturners Assoc." located in Phoenix. Members there can help you decide what to get. You can take advantage of their mentoring program and get hands on help. Good place to get used gear also.

Going to. Thanks.

I like to see someone planning instead of just buying!

For turning: you can't turn wood if you can't sharpen. A sharpening setup should be the first thing to get with the lathe and tools.

Second would be a chuck which solves many problems and allows much flexibility. One with the insert you can change when moving to a bigger lathe is the best.

If you can stand it, don't buy anything else until you get some turning experience. Even a starter lathe with cheap tools and a beater grinder is far, far better equipment than most of the world had in the history of woodturning!

A bandsaw would be next on my list. It is the most used power tool in my shop. For turning it makes preparing wood easier and cheaper. People who don't have a bandsaw sometimes come to my shop. I have several and for me the most useful is an 18" saw. Mine is a Rikon but the brand is not as important as the capacity.

Also, join a club. (Sorry if you mentioned this; I didn't have time to read all of your post. I'm late feeding the llamas and tending the baby peacocks and guineas this morning.)

JKJ

Plan on immediately finding a grinder, but as stated I am not sure if I am willing to buy a $40 craftsman or ryobi. I am really wanting a "final" grinder, no temp step. I don't see the value in a temp step like I do with a cheap lathe and cheap tools to learn with. I feel like having a nice grinder will make the sharpening slightly easier and overall more enjoyable.

A chuck is on the list, I definitely need to prioritize it, but I would have to figure out which one will work with future lathe.

Looking at a bandsaw tomorrow.

Going to contact AZ woodturners associated.

Thanks

If you decide to get a CBN wheel, you can save $ by buying aluminum wheel instead of steel. But be wary of super deals you hear about on eBay etc. I was wary of aluminum wheels, but took recommendation of a couple of professional turners to check out Ken Rizza's wheels, bought a 180 ($149). CBNs are quite "efficient" and after using mine for a couple of months, I think a 300 would have been fine. I have a 60-grit pink wheel on the other side.

My $.02, move the CBN wheel up on your list. Having a sharpening jig and CBN wheel will impact everything you do from that point forward. You need repeatability in sharpening your tools, and having fresh, properly sharpened tools can turn frustration into pure elation. At least it did for me.

This looks like 2 votes for moving the CBN up the purchase list. I like the idea, is just that pesky budget issue ☺️

Thanks everyone.

[Jamie Straw]

I am really wanting a "final" grinder, no temp step. I don't see the value in a temp step like I do with a cheap lathe and cheap tools to learn with. I feel like having a nice grinder will make the sharpening slightly easier and overall more enjoyable.

If you're not wanting a "temp step" with the grinder, suggestion is to go with a slow-speed 8" model. Someone around here will know when Woodcraft puts the Rikon on sale. I bought their no-name grinder about 7 years ago, it has been fine. Also, if you like DIY for saving $$, take a look at Doc Green's book Fixtures and Chucks for Woodturning: Everything You Need to Know to Secure Wood on Your Lathe [~$18] Several DIY solutions there, he's a very practical guy.

[Dok Yager]

Chance, Welcome to the abyss. First and foremost Slow down step back and take JKJ`s advice here! Look to get a lathe and a bandsaw first as those Two tools you will use the most. Next get a chuck and some jaws if you don`t get one with a good used lathe. Next pick your bandsaw carefully. In my humble opinion almost all 14-17 inch bandsaws have approx 12+ inches of re-saw capability. That is what we use most next to the lathe. Buy a set of turning tools to start.Then Stop! Take the time to learn how to use all those tools correctly. Safety equipment is a MUST before you ever even plug in your tools! If you can take a class from either Rockler or Woodcraft on turning or get a hold of one of the turning groups here in town. It helps tremendously!

[Bob Bouis]

Nobody's mentioned a chainsaw yet? I'd think that even in Phoenix there are trees to be found. It's definitely the best way to get wood to turn.

[Chance Raser]

i feel i need to address one misconception. i think i came on strong with a purchase list. what that really is is list of things id like to buy in order. i have no intention of buying everything on that list (like a jointer or planer right now). those are further in the future and farther down the list. so i feel like i am taking it slow, just trying to get what i need to get started with respect to making as few interim purchases along the way. i appreciate everyones comments so far, thanks a bunch!

Chance, Welcome to the abyss. First and foremost Slow down step back and take JKJ`s advice here! Look to get a lathe and a bandsaw first as those Two tools you will use the most. Next get a chuck and some jaws if you don`t get one with a good used lathe. Next pick your bandsaw carefully. In my humble opinion almost all 14-17 inch bandsaws have approx 12+ inches of re-saw capability. That is what we use most next to the lathe. Buy a set of turning tools to start.Then Stop! Take the time to learn how to use all those tools correctly. Safety equipment is a MUST before you ever even plug in your tools! If you can take a class from either Rockler or Woodcraft on turning or get a hold of one of the turning groups here in town. It helps tremendously!

OK, so i have basically taken this advice. cheap lathe with tools, check. i went and looked at the grizzly bandsaw, got it for $275. check. safety gear ordered. now i am sitting with my last purchase i feel i need to make in order to properly start turning; the grinder. next is a chuck, then stop purchasing and practice!

based on whats available on craigslist right now i have 4 options i am willing to consider:
-buy a new rikon 80-808 now or wait for sale.
-buy a dayton 8" 3450rpm 3/4 hp i found on craigslist for $100. its the newer style that grainger sells for $220. https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...-Grinder-4Z909
-buy an old dayton 8" 3450rpm 3/4 hp i found on craigslist for $250 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/5666916464.html
-buy a cheap grinder $40-$50 on craigslist as an interim.

2 main questions:
-does anyone have, or has anyone used a dayton? i searched like crazy and cant find any good reviews. is the old american made one worth it? is the new one any better than a cheaper option?
-is a cheap grinder with a CBN better than a nice grinder with AOs?

Thanks.

[Bob Bouis]

I have the slow-speed (preferred for sharpening turning tools!) version of that grinder, sold under the (discontinued) steel city brand -- I believe. http://www.woodcraft.com/product/860...l-grinder.aspx

It's quite good but the faster speed version might be different.

Dayton is, as I understand it, out of business and the brand name was bought by Granger, which rebrands generic tools and sells them under that name. I could be mistaken, though.

[John K Jordan]

Chance,

About the grinder - are the tools that came with the lathe high speed steel (they should be marked) or carbon steel? (unmarked). If they are HSS, most any grinder and wheel will work. If they are carbon steel you have to be careful not to get the cutting edge too hot or it will ruin the hardness in the steel and the edge will not stay sharp. If the edge turns blue, it is too late and that section should be ground away.

If the tools are NOT high speed steel, the slower speed grinder might be better. They run at 1/2 the speed of the Dayton you mentioned. That, plus a lot of water, can keep the tools in good shape. Even for HSS I prefer the slower grinder. It is easier to control.

Woodcraft sells the 1/2 horse slow speed grinder at a pretty good price. It is a cheap grinder and is not as powerful as many grinders but it will work. I use one with an aluminum CBN wheel and a metal polishing wheel. I have a larger grinder with two CBN wheels and the biggest difference is the 1/2 horse is a little slower to start up. There is no problem with the power for sharpening lathe tools. For heavy duty grinding, I would consider it way under powered - I have a very powerful (and expensive) grinder in my metalworking shop with a grinding wheel and a wire brush. No way the little Rikon would work there!

A stock CBN wheel will work fine on the smaller grinder or any 8" grinder with a 5/8" shaft. For a grinder with less power I would definitely buy an aluminum CBN instead of one machined from steel. A weaker grinder can spin up a lighter-weight AL wheel easier. In fact, I've heard of people with two steel CBN wheels that need to give the wheels a little push to get the grinder moving.

A nice thing about a CBN wheel is it can be taken off a cheap grinder and remounted on a better grinder some day if desired. The other advantages, such as never needing dressing, always running true and balanced, never changing size make them very desirable for woodturning tools.

One disadvantage of CBN - you can't grind mild steel or it may load up the wheel. Another is they are expensive. If you get one check into Ken Rizza's special (and inexpensive) spherical washer sets that help the wheel run true even if the machining on the nut is bad.

But again, don't go wild. A grinder with an aluminum oxide wheel and a wolverine/vari-grind is better than what most of us got started with. I'd probably get a cheap used one now and upgrade later. You can always use two grinders. (I have five and gave another one away.)

I may have a spare 220 grit CBN wheel available in a few weeks. I said I'd hold it for a gentleman until he got back from a trip but if I don't hear from him by the end of August I need to sell or trade or use it to make a nice base for a cat scratching pole.

JKJ

[Chance Raser]

JKJ, thanks for all the input, thank everyone for all the input. It really is helping and not falling on deaf ears.

I am almost certain the tools I have are carbon steel, but I'll verify.

I will likely go one of two ways, a new slow speed 1/2 hp rikon or a something used on Craigslist. Either way I'll move the CBN up on my purchasing list, So if that 220 needs a new home just let me know how much?

[Roger Chandler]

Chance, you can call Grizzly, or go online and get a riser kit for that G0555LX bandsaw. They have several kits, but one specifically for that saw. The upper arm on that saw has geared lift and lowering with a knob, so make sure you get the correct riser kit. The others will not have the right upper arm guide. It will allow you 12" cutting height, which is good for bowl blanks, and it will then use a 105" blade instead of a 93" blade.

I have used many different make 14" bandsaws over the years, from Powermatic, Jet, Delta, generic Tiwainese, and I have an 18" Jet in my shop as well, and this G0555LX is the smoothest, most accurate 14" saw I have ever used. It has the best blade detensioning system I have seen on a 14" class saw.

[Chance Raser]

I found the riser kit you talk about, only $85. I will put that on my list, but will likely wait a while before getting it.

I am now signed up for an intro to bowl turning class at Rockler on 9/17! While i was in Rockler i almost bought some nice wood, some of the "exotic" but then talked myself out of it rationalizing that it would be wasted on my skill at this point.

[Dok Yager]

Chance you might want to wait and keep looking at craigslist OR contact one of the turning clubs. Especially the one in "Sun City" some of those guy`s sell off their stuff because they get tired of it or get too old to continue. My neighbor got a Nice Nova 1624-44 two years ago from there in excellent shape.

[Chance Raser]

So this is the lathe, still need to be cleaned up and readied for action. Craigslist $40

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This is the band saw I picked up on Craigslist for $260. It is setup/leveled and ready to go.

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I just picked up this grinder on Craigslist for $65. It's big, It runs like a dream, super smooth, maybe too big but for the price and how smooth it ran I couldn't pass.

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So on to the question, do I get an 8" wheel of 10" wheel? Its rated at 2 hp and calls for a 10". But I found that d-way sells both 8" and 10" cbn wheels with a 1" Arbor. The price difference is $35, so not a big deal when looking at the entire price. I get that the 10" wheel is approx 24% larger and therefore likely to last 24% longer, and that it should perform the given team about 24% faster, but is the 10" too big?

Also, I read robohippys post on cbns, I can get an 8" radius wheel but not a 10". Does anyone have anything to say about the use of the radius wheel beyond what robohippys post mentions?

As always, thanks for the help.

[Brice Rogers]

Chance, I'd recommend just going with the 8" CBN wheel. They are supposed to last for a lifetime. So, 8" or 10" doesn't matter a whole lot. Also, a 6 or 7" wheel will - - in a practical sense - - also work.

I sharpen my gouges with a homemade (Captain Eddie Castilien) $2 Ellsworth grind fixture on a 6" wheel. It works. Would a 7" wheel be better? Maybe. How about a 10" or 15" wheel? Well, since the 6" wheel works fine, it really doesn't matter. If you get an 8" wheel, it will probably work great.

When I'm turning I use a diamond hand file to touch up my gouges . The convex wheel puts a concave grind and the file only touches the outer edges. When I see that the hand file is getting close to being flat somewhere, I re-sharpen it using the jig.

As long as you can get your tools really sharp, that is all that matters.

[John Keeton]

Looks like the grinder motor and bandsaw will work well, but I would suggest you continue to search for a lathe. I think you will find the tube lathe to be frustrating and inadequate for anything but smaller spindle work. And, even then, less than satisfactory.