Minimax CU 300 Smart electrical question

[Frank Martin]

When my capacitors failed MM sent me replacements. They wouldn't fit into the original box and the new box wasn't available. Amazon had smaller ones with the same specs.
Just make sure you wait a good while until you mess with a capacitor thats been charged.

Mike, I believe the ones I am getting are straight swaps, so I am expecting them to fit into the existing box. In any case, that is why I ordered them from Minimax as I can probably get other brands less than half the price. In fact, when I was placing the order, the Minimax person offered this option (very nice of him to let me know I can get them cheaper elsewhere), but I still went with them to make sure they fit into the box.

About waiting, not sure what you mean, as long as I discharge them (by connecting the two terminals), is there a reason to be worried about this? I did this before wit another motor on a different machine (thankfully no longer own that machine) and did not have any issues

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Mike, I believe the ones I am getting are straight swaps, so I am expecting them to fit into the existing box.

You'd think. But mine didn't.

About waiting, not sure what you mean, as long as I discharge them (by connecting the two terminals), is there a reason to be worried about this?

No guarantees, but I guess they'd be safe after discharge.
Any electricians here?

[Mike Heidrick]

You use a "bleeder" resistor to bleed a start capacitor. Measure it with a meter to make sure it is fully discharged. Just waiting will not discharge a cap. Also do not just short them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xzvfsaGKKw

[Frank Martin]

You'd think. But mine didn't.

You were right! The package arrived and the new capacitors are larger and would not fit into the existing box. Disappointing given the only reason I ordered from Minimax was to make sure it is straight swap, which I had mentioned to the person while I was placing the order. Anyway... So, how did you install your capacitors, did you use any bracket, etc.? Do you have any pictures?

[Jim Becker]

They may not be able to get the "original" caps currently...that might account for the size difference. Bummer that you have to deal with that, but hopefully, you'll have things back up and running once you figure the best way to protect them. (Perhaps a second box?)

[Frank Martin]

I have installed the 60 uF capacitor and still have the same symptoms. The other, 70 uF capacitor, is fine and tested exactly where it should be and visually looks good. So, back to square one. What else could be wrong?

Erik, I know you had said the micro switch tied to the planer hood cannot be the problem because it would not let other functions operate, but I still would like to check to make sure it looks okay. Can you please point me to its location, I could not locate it.

Regarding the second box for the new larger capacitor, I will order a project box from Amazon as I could not find it at the big box store.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

You were right! The package arrived and the new capacitors are larger and would not fit into the existing box.

Got mine from Amazon.

I believe that the start was 60
The run was 70.

Or was it the other way around?

Anyway, they're a fraction of the cost of the ones that we got from SCMI.

[Frank Martin]

Got mine from Amazon.

I believe that the start was 60
The run was 70.

Or was it the other way around?

Anyway, they're a fraction of the cost of the ones that we got from SCMI.

Mike, did the ones from Amazon fit into the existing box? If so, do you happen to have the link to the ones you ordered. You are definitely right about the Amazon price being a fraction, the 70 uF is about a third of the SCMI price. Would have been okay if it were a straight swap to avoid the pain but not the case...

Looks like I have another problem beyond the capacitors, so back to square one...

[Erik Loza]

Frank, the parts manual for the machine (if you don't have it, you can download it from partspronto.com) shows the locations of the various micro-switches. Again, the switches are an on-off proposition: If any function on the machine starts, then it's not one of the switches. The switches, any of the switches, kills power to the entire machine. Assumimg the new capacitors are correct and didn't start the motor and assuming there is nothing mechanical obstructing the cutterhead from turning, my next step would be to pull the motor in question and have it tested by a motor shop. Best of luck with it.

Erik

Oh, by the way, I would call Martin ot woever you dealt with and and see about returning those capacitors. Just tell them they won't physically fit the enclosure. I wondered about the size thing, myself. Actually did not realize SCM sold just the capacitors. The whole motors, yes, but not just the caps. Most of my guys have, as Mike is talking about, just sourced them locally or online. Generally, they call out the physical dimensions of the cap. in the supporting info. I bought some at thelocal Grainger once. Sorry I did not step in this sooner: Been traveling the last few days.

[Frank Martin]

Frank, the parts manual for the machine (if you don't have it, you can download it from partspronto.com) shows the locations of the various micro-switches. Again, the switches are an on-off proposition: If any function on the machine starts, then it's not one of the switches. The switches, any of the switches, kills power to the entire machine. Assumimg the new capacitors are correct and didn't start the motor and assuming there is nothing mechanical obstructing the cutterhead from turning, my next step would be to pull the motor in question and have it tested by a motor shop. Best of luck with it.

Erik

Oh, by the way, I would call Martin ot woever you dealt with and and see about returning those capacitors. Just tell them they won't physically fit the enclosure. I wondered about the size thing, myself. Actually did not realize SCM sold just the capacitors. The whole motors, yes, but not just the caps. Most of my guys have, as Mike is talking about, just sourced them locally or online. Generally, they call out the physical dimensions of the cap. in the supporting info. I bought some at thelocal Grainger once. Sorry I did not step in this sooner: Been traveling the last few days.

Erik,

I will test everything once last time and then take it to a motor shop. It looks like to remove the J/P motor I need to first remove the shaper motor.

About returning the capacitors, I think Martin was just trying to help me. He did tell me that I can buy those from many other sources at a cheaper price. I went with SCMI just to make sure they fit into the box. However, from our conversations about the electrical box on the saw motor, I realize some of these electrical components do change over time, which looks like is the case in my situation. I will call Martin about returning these and look into getting the right size capacitor.

One question about the capacitor spec, in addition to the microfarad rating, there are voltage ratings on the original ones showing three values such as 500V, 450V, 400V and next to each 25/085/21. Given my machine is 220 V, other than matching the microfarad rating, making sure they are rated for at least 220V and the size match do I need to worry about anything else? Do you have any links to the those available online?

Thanks for the help, really appreciate your support!

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Frank

For the life of me I can't find my Amazon order.
I will send a photo of the actual unit when I return home tomorrow.

It is smaller than the original cap, fits fine.
I've found that most 4.7 hp single phase from MM use the same caps.

The capacitors that they are sending out are useless.
MM should get their act together.

[Frank Martin]

Frank

For the life of me I can't find my Amazon order.
I will send a photo of the actual unit when I return home tomorrow.

It is smaller than the original cap, fits fine.
I've found that most 4.7 hp single phase from MM use the same caps.

The capacitors that they are sending out are useless.
MM should get their act together.

Mike, that would be very helpful! I checked on Amazon and the ones I think would fit are not small enough. Thanks!

[Frank Martin]

I think I may be closer to the root cause of the problem. I removed the J/P motor based on Erik's recommendation with the plan to take to a motor shop. Once I got it out I direct wired it to make sure the problem is really with the motor. It was not. It started just fine, multiple times.

Here are some other facts:

* I checked the leads that normally go the J/P motor (while the motor is out), one of the hot leads read the expected 120V the other one was only showing 37V.

* When the main function selector switch is at the J/P mode and I hit the power button, I still get the light thud, the whiny noise and the white light between the on (I) and off (0) button on the main power switch comes on. So, these noises are coming from the main switch area, not from the motor.

* I get the same light thud, the whiny noise and the white light when the switch is at one of the 0 (zero) positions between each function on the rotary selection switch and I hit the power button.

So, it must be either the rotary function selector switch, a fuse, or some other electrical component. What do you think may be the root cause and how can I check it?

[Jim Becker]

Frank, you may be onto something. I did have to replace the rotary switch on my FS-350 J/P a number of years ago when it failed prematurely.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Here's the replacement I got from Amazon.
Can you believe it? Something made in the USA.

Google the numbers on the switch.
Lots of suppliers for MM parts. Most from Siemens.

capacitor.jpg