I apologize in advance that this will be a LONG post (EXTREMELY LONG). But then, it is intended for those, like me at one point, who are wading through the endless info trying to determine which laser to buy. I wanted to recite my story in detail as there is so much information and (mis)information that floats around, I wanted to help others who are in the position I was in, hopefully make a decision easier for them.
I will preface this long accounting of my situation by stating it IS just one person's experience and I can't say that the experience will be the same for everyone. But there are certain things I discovered, going through the process I went through, that proved some of the 'tips' and 'advice' I'd received to be completely false or inaccurate.
I'll begin at the beginning.
Some Background (read if you want)
For thirty years I have been a marketer. By that, I mean I have been a designer, writer, creative director and brand developer in and around the ad agency business and media in Canada. I would say I've been fairly successful at it.
I owned a small/medium market ad agency for ten years, handled local, regional and national account work. Today I run an independent consultancy and do quite well at that. I also work around the sports industry (marketing) as does my wife (retail) and we are all VERY involved in various youth sports with our kids (hockey, soccer, baseball, field hockey, etc). So, that's all the background. I set this up to give context to what launched me on the path I've chosen to undertake.
For the past several years, I've grown tired of working in intangibles and have really had a fantasy to work with something tactile. In other words, make something physical and 'sell' it. I don't want to abandon what I do now, but want to start building a sideline business I can grow and, who knows, maybe even transition into full time. At least build something my kids might take over one day and build.
My wife suggested we look at the trophy business. Part of my work is with a sports league and we have done so much work with youth sports as well, she made the point that there is a lot of trophy and award work out there. Add to that my considerable rolidex of businesses with which I have connections, all of whom make name badges, plaques, etc.
The idea had some merit. But it seemed very foreign and somewhat arbitrary compared to the work I've been doing for 30 years.
Then I started reading up about it and about the modernization of the business, with the move into lasers. Everywhere I read, the same thing came up over and over; the two hardest parts of the business are marketing and learning the software.
Wait a minute, I'm a 30 year marketer and I've been using Corel, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc for three decades!
I started to realize a laser engraver not only provided an opportunity to explore getting into the awards and trophy business, but also offered other possibilities, including the potential to develop and sell our own products!
Could this be the opportunity I've been looking for?
And so my journey began in January, in earnest.
Doing the leg work
Because it tends to be the way I do things, I started researching. I read everything and anything I could, including scouring pages and pages of posts on here and elsewhere. I watched videos. I spoke directly with reps from almost every laser company, including the domestics (Trotec, Universal, Epilog), Chinese manufactures (mostly by email - I won't bother listing them all) and several of what I'll call hybrid suppliers (ie. chinese lasers sold and/or serviced here in North America). These would be your Rabbit Lasers, Redsail (who have a reseller/service person in Ontario, Canada), Full Spectrum, etc.
I also contacted trophy and substrate providers in Canada and the US.
Then I booked a trip down to Vegas to the APA (Awards and Personalization - which use to be Awards and Recognition) international show. I went so far as to research every exhibitor in advance and determine exactly what questions I wanted to ask each when I got there.
At the show itself, it was like Candyland for laser engraving and customization. I had no idea there were so many options for materials, trophies, etc.
I spent the first day going booth to booth, learning everything I could. I also took the time to visit the Trotec and Epilog booths and take a first hand look at their machines (I'd never seen a laser engraver in person before, believe it or not). I also had an opportunity to speak with the GCC folks and folks from a Chinese direct manufacturer and look at their machines.
I should point out that in the meantime as this is going on over several months, I am also continually emailing and calling different suppliers, hounding them with questions, asking for quotes, etc.
Of most note is the extreme polarization of US laser vs Chinese laser camps.
US laser users/fans will tell you nothing but bad things about Chinese lasers and Chinese laser fans will tell you US lasers are a ripoff for the cost. They often veil those statements with feint praise here and there so as not to seem too biased. But the bottom line is, if you ask a US laser advocate a question that contains the words 'Chinese' + 'Laser' what you'll hear back, regardless of what the question is, is "Why buy a chinese laser? they're nothing but trouble - You get what you pay for. Buy US"
I could recite all the nightmare scenarios you read, but that would make this needlessly longer than it already is and if you're reading this and have done research yourself, chances are you'll have read them all anyway.
I made a comparison spreadsheet at one point (comparing as closely as possible wattage, size, etc from one machine to the next as I could) with every pro and con of every laser manufacturer I had researched, all with price comparisons attached.
The bottom line is - I did as much research as I could humanly do and considered ALL sides. Then came time to decided how much money I wanted to spend!
The Bottom Line on the Bottom Line
For a number of practical reasons (space being among them and what I perceived as my realistic needs) I settled on needing something in the 18" x 24" range. A happy medium for wattage seemed to be the 60w (in glass tube measurement) range. I didn't need pass through. And I'd managed to compile my basic want lists - honeycomb tray, red dot, air-assist (which basically was standard most of the time), etc.
For pure ease of ordering/delivering/servicing I checked out my domestic laser pricing first.
To get into what I would consider an entry level machine with my specs, with a Trotec I was upwards of $25k+ (CDN dollars). Epilogs and Universals were pretty close to the same one way or another. Then I had to consider their laser recharging costs were, according to everything I'd heard, anything from $1,500 - $2,500! I envisioned being a couple of years down the road, in the middle of a job and suddenly needing a laser recharge and having to fork out thousands of dollars unexpectedly.
I also, frankly, didn't have $20 - $30k sitting in the bank to hand over. Keep in mind the laser isn't the only cost I would have to consider. I would need some sample trophies, a starter set of substrates, shears, etc. Plus there would be some money to spend retrofitting an area in my basement to do this work.
I've been in business for myself long enough to know that the best recipe for failure, starting a new venture, is to start off with the burden of overcoming debt right from the get-go.
I wanted to only spend (at least initially) what I could afford in cash. We also decided we didn't want to 'rent' a premise to do the work in. We wanted to start in our basement and that way, again, not incur additional costs until we had built up cash flow and contracts to support them.
Leasing a US machine was an option, but again it started me off with monthly payments to absorb and pay back.
After a great deal of back and forth, and in the face of overwhelming advice on forums like this not to stray into the devil's lair and purchase a Chinese laser, I found myself left with no other choice but to do just that. I had the choice of risking $25k or more (which would have to be financed) or under $5k (which I'd pay in cash).
Here's the comment (actually made by a domestic laser seller) that was the tipping point for me. He said, you want to buy a US laser because they retain much of their value. After all, their used machines were still a good $10k - $15k at least. The Chinese machines, on the other hand, he pointed out, you'd be lucky if you could even get a few hundred dollars for, used. So when I asked how much I might expect to sell my $25k laser for a year or two down the road, he said I should be able to get upwards to $20k. So, I'd lose $5k. If I buy a Chinese laser and I give it away, I lose $5k. Added to which, I can get rid of my Chinese laser in about five minutes if I give it away free. I could be sitting for 6 months or more trying to sell my used US laser for $20k to get the balance of my money back out of it.
I had read some good things about Weike lasers and had some great emails from them when I was doing my research. I also learned that a great many resellers sell what are effectively Weike machines. I had explored others, like Redsail and Thunder Laser, etc. but I just seemed to read more consistently good things about Weike than the others and Weike's pricing seemed more competitive. That said, it meant ordering from China, which scared the @#%&* out of me!
Nonetheless I forged forward with Weike.
Dealing With A Chinese Supplier Directly
I just did a count and since beginning correspondence with Weike, Nina (their rep) and I have exchanged no less than 73 emails! But here's the interesting take away - almost all were ME asking HER questions! they weren't problems, or communications breakdowns or any of the other 13,000 nightmare scenarios you'll read about on these forums. In the beginning, many were me just prodding and poking for information, which Nina was glad to provide and promptly! there is a time difference but if I emailed her after 6pm PST my time, I would often get a response within 5 minutes. Rarely did a response take more than an hour.
Through our price negotiations, I continually changed my mind, adding or changing options, and each time Nina happily adjusted quotes and in many cases included the odd little option I'd tack on at no extra charge.
Though Nina's English was a bit broken, I never had any issues understanding her correspondence, nor did she have trouble understanding mine. I've had people I deal with in business here at home I find more difficult to communicate with than Nina.
I realized after a couple of weeks I was procrastinating out of fear.
I had been so scared off of buying from a Chinese manufacturer (after everything I'd been told by many on forums and dealers of US machines) that I was convinced I would a) lose my money b) be mired in months of ugly import red tape and costs c) receive a machine that was damaged, didn't work and needed all kinds of tinkering with d) would be stuck with software that was virtually unusable, didn't work and was incompatible with everything e) get a machine with the wrong power, wrong wattage, wrong something and maybe even electrocute myself f) all of the above.
Finally, my wife nudged me and said "Just buy the damn thing already!".
So I did.
I sent an eTransfer for half the amount due and Nina right away assured me my machine would begin its build right away.
I knew going in it would take approximately 3 - 5 weeks to build the machine and then I'd be looking at a lengthy period while the machine traveled by ship to the port, which is in a city about 300 miles away from where I live. Then I would have to figure out getting it to my home (and into my home - turns out my doorway was 2" too small to accommodate the machine being brought through. Something I learned later, but more on that further down). I was in no real rush, so I was prepared to wait.
And So The Nightmare Begins...Or Does It?
I should mention I have NEVER shipped anything from overseas, especially not a several hundred pound, crated piece of equipment. I am also not one of those people with 'contacts' overseas that can help. I didn't know what a forwarder was or how transporting something from a port worked. I've never even seen a Bill of Lading I don't think... at least, if I have, I didn't know that was what it was!
I was nervous. I’d read that customs can be a real issue. I’d read that paper work is always screwed up. I'd read that there can be all kinds of hidden charges. I’d read that shipments are often delayed days and weeks (and even worse) when they come from overseas.
Not knowing what to do and how to go about dealing with the shipping, I contacted Nina who assured me they’d take care of everything. I had nothing to worry about. Yeah… famous last words right?
Time went on and I became more and more excited and more and more anxious.
After several weeks, close to the completion of my machine, Nina sent me a bunch of hi res images of the machine being prepared and tested in the factory. It was like seeing your new baby’s ultrasound pics.
I went around showing the pics of my new machine to friends. I’m sure they were thrilled.
Finally came the day the machine was ready to be shipped out of the factory. Nina contacted me for final payment of the balance owing, which I nervously forwarded right away via eTransfer.
It turned out there was a small hold up (two days) while Weike waited for some Canadian Government certification to be forwarded to them as it needed to be included with the shipment documents for customs.
I really wasn’t sure what the next step from my end was, but I knew I needed a customs broker, so I called one I found online.
The woman at the brokerage was fantastic. I explained I knew nothing and she walked me through the steps.
She told me what I’d need in the way of paperwork when the shipment arrived (commercial invoice, bill of lading, etc.) and that the bill of lading would need to be the original. She told me that a ‘forwarder’, who is contracted by the manufacturer shipping the item, would be responsible for removing the shipment from its container and putting it in the warehouse at the port. She also explained as my shipment would only constitute a portion of what was in the container and therefore it may take a couple of days for the crate to actually be removed from the container and placed into storage awaiting customs release.
She explained that she then would work on getting the item released and explained what potential setbacks may occur, including a potential inspection of all items in the container by customs for which all recipients of whatever was in that container would share the total cost, which could be in the $2,000 range. Again, my item being less than 1/10th of the container load, the worst I’d be looking at is an extra couple of hundred dollars.
In total, I was looking at about a $450 cost from the moment the shipment arrived in port to the moment it was placed on a truck for delivery. That included taxes and brokerage fees.
She then advised I call a transport firm to arrange pick up from the port when the shipment became ready for release.
She recommended one and I contacted them. They gave me a price of just over $150 to transport and told me they would be available to pick it up on whatever day the shipment was to be released and they would have it here (in my town) the next day.
This all seemed WAY too easy given everything I’d read.
My Ship Comes In… Literally.
I had been following the ship’s path using an app I’d downloaded on my phone. It was endless fun logging in and seeing where my ship was from day to day.
Finally, my ship arrived and I was informed by the customs broker that the shipment should be released within the week. It turned out to be good timing for me as I had a couple of days off around that time to get the laser uncrated and into my basement.
While I had been waiting, I had discovered (an oversight on my part) that the laser is 33” wide at its narrowest point and my doorway, with the door removed was 32” wide. I fortunately had a big 4’ x 6’ window out to my driveway in the room in which I planned to place the laser. My plan was to pick the laser up at the trucking warehouse in my pick up, back up to the window, with the window removed, manually (using several guys) slide the laser through the window opening and place it in the room. Yeah, uh no.
More on that further on.
Sure enough, within a few days the item was released, like clockwork the trucking company picked it up and the next day, as promised, the item was in their local depot here.
The next morning I went to the depot with my pickup and they promptly forklifted the GIGANTIC crate in the bed of my truck.
I hadn’t really known what to expect but the crate was bigger and more daunting than I had expected. I had also learned that the laser was about 350 pounds. Suddenly, the reality of lifting this off my truck started to sink in. That was exacerbated when I learned two of my three helpers had now cancelled on me and I was due to drive out of town with my truck on business the next day… this meant, one way or another, I had to figure out how to get the laser off the truck and into my home in the few hours I had, with just two of us.
I pulled into the driveway and immediately started uncrating. My expectation was to see inside a jumbled mess, with screws on the ground, items displaced, etc.
Instead, I was shocked to find everything meticulously packaged and in place, clean, organized without a single issue. The crate came undone easily and in minutes I had the various boxed accessories (5000w water cooler, extra glass tube, etc) off the truck with just the laser exposed.
One thing I had read which DID turn out to be the case is that these lasers come shipped, coated in a fine oil/grease. It seems to be on everything, which makes handling it a bit tricky. It’s not like it’s caked on, just an ever-so-slight slick here and there.
Anticipating having to ‘lift’ this bohemith over the days leading up, I had asked a number of people familiar with this laser if the legs could be removed (including asking Nina at Weike). I was told no, the legs are permanently attached.
To my pleasant surprise I discovered not only are they removable, but easily so with four simple bolts easily accessible from each side panel.
Myself and my buddy decided the best course of action was to remove the laser from the legs and take each off the truck and into the basement separately.
We also decided not to remove the window and instead tip the laser on its side to get it through the doorway.
I had been given endless feedback that everything would go wonky if the laser was tipped, things would go out of line, the laser would be damaged, wiring would become disconnected, etc… more nightmare stories.
We managed to get the laser into the basement (it was HEAVY) and set back up on the legs without issue. Nothing appeared to move. Everything appeared intact.
Finally, the laser was in place.
On a note about quality, I have to say how impressed I was by the machine. It is built extremely sturdy and finished really nicely. It doesn’t look clunky or cheap and there aren’t the unfinished parts I’d expected. After all, this is a machine that was just several thousand dollars before shipping and probably $30k less than the equivalent (size, wattage, etc) US machine.
Even my buddy commented on how cool it looked.
Once the laser was in place, I unpacked the blower, compressor, etc.
One oversight had to do with the blower. Reading so many horror stories about the inadequate Chinese blowers, I took the advise of a user on here and purchased a blower from the link sent to me. Turns out that the blower I purchased had a 4” opening while the laser vent is a 6”. Concerned about messing with the blowers input/output power and volumes by using a reducer, I chose instead to go with the supplied blower with its 6" connections instead, which worked like a charm. A bit loud, for sure, but frankly no louder than the other one I had bought.
With the laser in place and the accessories all unpacked I decided to leave the laser for a few days as I had to cut an opening in my wall and set up the vent, and didn’t want to test anything out until then. (in truth, I was afraid to try it – I was convinced, from what I’d read, the other shoe would soon drop and I’d discover the horrible mistake I’d made purchasing a Chinese laser the minute I turned it on!)
The Moment of Truth
The first thing I did was install the software that came on a DVD in the laptop I’d set aside. I made sure I had the 32 bit Windows 7 installed and not the 64 bit, as I’d heard LaserCut 5.3 didn’t work in 64 bit. I had planned on using Adobe Illustrator on my Mac to do all my work then bring it into LaserCut on my PC laptop, which from everything I’d read was glitchy at best.
Nonetheless, I forged forward.
I installed the software, which actually turned out to be very easy. I did cheat and watch a Youtube video on installing LaserCut, but it was easy enough.
I then inserted the dongle in the laptop and opened the program up.
Voila, it was working.
I then watched another video on how to use LaserCut, which is really about as simple as it comes.
In Illustrator I created a simple graphic and converted it to a dfx file. I saved the file to a thumb drive and took it over to the PC. I imported it into LaserCut and there it was!
I took some of the elements and set them as one colour, designating them as an engraving path, with a particular speed and power setting. I took one other element (the box around the graphic) and designated that in a different colour as a cutting path, with its own speed and power setting. All seemed just fine.
Rabbit Laser’s site has a basic power/speed settings guide that can be used as a general rule of thumb setup for engraving/cutting different substrates. I used that guide.
Ha. The software worked!
Now it came time to set up the laser.
I had already gone in and removed the zap straps carefully holding the belts in place and cleaned away some of the yellow grease residue, which I’m assuming was a protective or preservative spray of some sort.
I checked inside all the panels and underneath the cutting platform. Everything was in place and seemed good.
On top of the laser I placed my laptop, which I then ran the Weike set up video on. It’s a bit rudimentary and everything is subtitled but it was easy enough to understand. And by stopping the video at each stage of setup, I could set things up then move to the next stage very easily.
I took my glass laser tube from its very well packed box and installed it. I hooked up the water hoses, compressor, blower, etc.
One thing I had been warned against is the amp drain this may have and that a 15 amp circuit wouldn’t be enough for the blower, compressor, laser, etc.
In anticipation of that, I’d spoken to a local electrician who I had on stand-bye to come in and install a new 25amp fuse and corresponding correct gauge wiring should it have been needed. (it turns out my 15amps ahs been fine for all of it)
For that reason, I plugged all the accessories into a separate surge protected power bar and the laser into a different socket. Not really sure why, as both the bar and the laser are ultimately plugged into the same circuit, lol.
I turned the power bar on and all the accessories functioned great. I turned on the laser and low and behold, it started up!
I opened the back panel to check there were no bubbles in the glass tube and there weren’t.
After the initial set up, which took about 10 seconds, the control panel was ready to use. I figured it out quickly and was able to slide the laser head around the X an Y axis with no troubles. I ordered my laser with a motorized Z axis and was able to raise and lower the platform with ease. I expected it to be jerky, but it was surprisingly smooth.
So the next challenge was mirror alignment, naturally I expected everything to be out of whack. I did the masking tape tests with the laser and found that the alignment all the way along was about as accurate as I think I’d ever get it.
I was ready to give the laser a try.
Once I knew the machine was working, I connected the USB cable inside the side panel to the laptop and installed the driver as shown on yet another Youtube video I’d watched.
The driver didn’t install the first time, so I deleted it and installed it again and it seemed to be just fine.
With the dongle inserted, I opened LaserCut and the file I had imported from Illustrator ta couple of days earlier.
I placed a piece of wood I had bought from the local craft store on the honeycomb tray inside the laser, adjusted the Z axis so my auto-focus met up with the substrate and everything was set.
I downloaded the artwork to the laser, which took seconds and appeared, as advertised in the control panel. I hit test on the control panel and discovered, after it ran a quick run around the bounding box of the job that I needed to move my substrate slightly to centre the artwork on it correctly.
Once I was happy, I hit start.
To my COMPLETE shock, it engraved and cut PERFECTLY, first time!!!
The precision and detail was astounding. Way better than I had expected. I’d heard all these things about Chinese lasers cutting ok but not being so good at engraving.
Not the case for me. The little engraved plaque I’d made (graphic and text) looked fantastic. Not a single flaw. I decided to push my luck and made 4 more of them. I made a few minor adjustments to the setting to get the engraving a bit deeper and the next ones looked even better than the first.
In Summation
Over the next several days I ran all kinds of tests from more wood projects and trophy plates to a little acrylic LED lit sign (with a laser cut stand I made) for my son. I have made several gifts for people and continue to come up with more ideas to try. LaserCut has worked without an issue, and I find the whole process super simple.
I had originally figured it would take me three months to learn the machine before I'd be able to produce anything professional or take on an engraving job. Honestly, at this stage, I feel ready now.
One thing I had done early on is purchase a number and variety of substrates from Trotec, who were amazing to deal with by the way. They processed my order at 5pm one day and the substrates were delivered from out of town to my door by 1pm the next day! Trish at Trotec in Vancouver is fantastic!!!
Another little note about Trotec. I’ve intentionally not bad-mouthed any particular laser manufacturer, though I had several experiences that would have warranted me doing so. That said, I do want to give a shout out to the folks at Trotec. As I had with every other laser seller I’d spoken with, I explained my needs to James at Trotec and explained my hope to cut my teeth with a simple, inexpensive laser at first and build up enough cash from it to get into a better quality laser down the road. James was the ONLY laser rep who didn’t challenge me on that and try to put me off buying a Chinese laser.
In fact, James agreed that the route I was going would probably be a good one for me for all the reasons I had stated and he encouraged me to continue the way I was going, purchasing from China and that he’d be there when I was ready to upgrade.
To Trotec and to James, when the time comes to upgrade, and that may be mere months from now (though I'll still keep my Weike) I WILL buy a Trotec Speedy laser. Your integrity and support has earned my future business!
Bottom line is I have had my laser run numerous jobs over the past month now without one glitch.
In fact, stupidly, I sent a job to the laser last night and decided to be clever and adjust the scan gap to .01 with a very slow, deep engrave. It took two hours!!! And pushed the laser to its limits for sure. My chiller even rose to close to 25° at times.
But it did the job (looked fantastic mind you at that high resolution) and is still running today.
So there’s my story. I know a number of people on here will now start ripping it apart and I want to say, for the record, I have no affiliation with any related business at all and my experience is mine alone and may differ from others’.
But the reason I’ve taken the time (away from my workday, which I’ll now pay for having play catchup lol) to write this long recitation is because I know there are others like me out there, overwhelmed with everything they’re reading, not knowing what to believe or not to believe. Who knows, maybe the next laser experience out of China will be the nightmare some have suggested. And who knows, maybe my laser will blow up a week from now. I’ll tell you one thing though, if my tube goes, I’ll be a lot happier spending a couple of hundred dollars replacing it than a couple of thousand dollars recharging it! (I actually have a spare so I won’t need to)
And I won’t doubt there are things I’ll discover my laser can’t do that others can, or issues I’ll have that others, better quality ones, won’t. But I could replace this machine 6 times and still be under what it would have cost me to get a US machine. It works, the software works, it is well made – it’s everything I’d hoped it would be and more. Getting it here wasn't much tougher than shipping something bought on Ebay.
Yes, down the road, I DO plan to buy a US machine, when I can afford it and when productivity becomes a necessity to do so (in other words when I’m that busy that I need to – at which time I’ll also have no problem affording it).
In total, I have only had one issue with my purchase. The issue was that I had ordered, as part of my package an extra set of lenses. Keeping I mind I changed my order repeatedly before placing my final order.
The lenses didn’t arrive. When I contacted Nina, she agreed to send them out at their shipping expense. They are on their way now.
So, hopefully this will be helpful for some. US machines ARE great. I’ve seen them and they’re terrific. But for those out there who simply can’t afford one, don’t assume there aren’t good, viable and VERY satisfying alternatives! I am trilled with my Weike thus far and looking forward to using it moving forward!
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Originally Posted by David Somers
