To Hone or not to Hone?

[Alan Heffernan]

As you all know, when you sharpen a gouge on a grinder it raises a burr in the gullet of the gouge.

Should one hone a gouge and remove the burr like sharpening a planer blade or leave it alone.

I know many who leave it there and go back to work on the lathe. But I am wondering if a small amount of work to hone it to a razor sharpness isn't worthwhile.

[Roger Chandler]

I sharpen on a 180 grit CBN wheel mostly, and the only tool I hone is the skew. The burr raised is not a hinderance in my opinion, and is gone almost immediately anyway. I prefer a burr on a scraper when shear cutting with light passes.......it cleans up the ripples or end grain tearout well. I think for most other gouges and scrapers honing will be a waste of time. I have no doubt that there will be some who disagree!

[Aaron Craven]

Definitely doesn't seem to be a consensus on this question. I've tried it both ways... for what I do it doesn't seem to make a difference (at least not on a gouge). I do hone my skew -- in fact, I try to ever put it on the grinder at all if I can help it.

[Joe Kaufman]

My opinion is that you have the potential to round off the cutting edge on a gouge at the bottom of the "U" or "V" and do more damage than good. I agree with Aaron regarding the Skew.

[John Keeton]

Skew only.

[Jamie Straw]

Beginner that I am, take it with a grain of salt, but I use a curled piece of Abranet, probably 180 grit, to gently and quickly slide out the tip of the flute to remove that burr if I can feel the burr with my finger. Otherwise, I don't worry about it. I've stopped honing the bevel when the tool comes off the grinder, but if I'm roughing a bowl, I hone the first couple of times it seems to be getting dull, saving time, and the third time I go back to the grinder. Only the grinder for finish cuts. Honing the skew? by all means! Still working on getting a super-sharp skew, but it will surrender when it meets the CBN wheel.

[John K Jordan]

As you all know, when you sharpen a gouge on a grinder it raises a burr in the gullet of the gouge.
Should one hone a gouge and remove the burr like sharpening a planer blade or leave it alone.
I know many who leave it there and go back to work on the lathe. But I am wondering if a small amount of work to hone it to a razor sharpness isn't worthwhile.

Alan,

I think it depends on what you do. What kind of turning are you doing and with what kind of wood?

I far prefer honed razor sharpness on my spindle gouges when turning things from hard, fine-grained wood such as ebony, cocobolo, dogwood, etc. In fact, a honed and polished edge can give a surface so smooth it needs little sanding (maybe starting with 800 grit) or no sanding at all. For the ultimate edge I look at my carving tools and chip carving knife - all polished to a mirror finish.

I don't hone much when making a bowl out of walnut or cherry or turning green wood.

I hone with two methods. I have a tapered fine diamond hone that is perfect for the inside of a flute. Holding it against the flute it takes off only the burr with no chance of rounding the edge.

For a finer polish I use the leather wheels on the Tormek with their honing compound. The level of polish here depends on the amount of time I spend. One wheel is flat for the outside and one is profiled for the inside of a flute. I usually hit a gouge with both.

I always hone skew chisels, either on the Tormak or by stropping on a leather flat with honing compound. A sharp skew is a wonderful thing.

After some use, I touch up edges once or twice with an super fine EZ Lap diamond paddle (the blue one), with the hone held firmly across the bevel for the sharpest edge.

BTW, if you use a microscope to compare the burr, knocked off burr, honed, and polished edges you can really see the difference. The edge with the burr knocked off by turning looks pretty ragged.

JKJ

[Alan Heffernan]

Alan,

I think it depends on what you do. What kind of turning are you doing and with what kind of wood?

I far prefer honed razor sharpness on my spindle gouges when turning things from hard, fine-grained wood such as ebony, cocobolo, dogwood, etc. In fact, a honed and polished edge can give a surface so smooth it needs little sanding (maybe starting with 800 grit) or no sanding at all. For the ultimate edge I look at my carving tools and chip carving knife - all polished to a mirror finish.

I don't hone much when making a bowl out of walnut or cherry or turning green wood.

I hone with two methods. I have a tapered fine diamond hone that is perfect for the inside of a flute. Holding it against the flute it takes off only the burr with no chance of rounding the edge.

For a finer polish I use the leather wheels on the Tormek with their honing compound. The level of polish here depends on the amount of time I spend. One wheel is flat for the outside and one is profiled for the inside of a flute. I usually hit a gouge with both.

I always hone skew chisels, either on the Tormak or by stropping on a leather flat with honing compound. A sharp skew is a wonderful thing.

After some use, I touch up edges once or twice with an super fine EZ Lap diamond paddle (the blue one), with the hone held firmly across the bevel for the sharpest edge.

BTW, if you use a microscope to compare the burr, knocked off burr, honed, and polished edges you can really see the difference. The edge with the burr knocked off by turning looks pretty ragged.

JKJ

I have been honing with a Tormek as well. I should have said my focus in this post was really spindle gouges.

As a side note, I will not sharpen my skews on the grinder. I am switching to the slow but excellent wet grind of the Tormek followed by the Tormek strop. I have a couple of brand new D-Way skews that I will Tormek tomorrow and go from there. A razor sharp skew is a beautiful tool. BTW, I need a microscope!

Thanks all for the replies. I have a couple of new spindle gouges on order and I will try both approaches in parallel to see what seems to work best. I do think one must be quite careful to avoid rounding the edge profile in the honing process.

[John K Jordan]

I have been honing with a Tormek as well. ...BTW, I need a microscope!

A few months ago I put a 600 grit CBN wheel (from Ken Rizza, Woodturners Wonders) on my Tormek. It is very nice not to deal with the water or dressing the wheel. Instead of waiting for the water to permeate the stone I can sharpen immediately.

However, I do not get as good an edge as I did with the water wheel. It is coarser than with the water wheel and takes longer to polish on the leather wheels. I am wondering what a 1000 grit CBN wheel would do for the Tormek but it would be an expensive experiment. I do have several coarser CBN wheels on 8" grinders set up to use the Tormek jigs so I don't have to use the Tormek for reshaping a tool. If I could find a used Tormek the best solution might be use the CBN on one and the water wheel on the other.

One annoying thing with using a CBN wheel on a Tormek when sharpening from the front (with the wheel moving away from the edge): since all tools become magnetized there is usually a long trail of black steel dust trailing away from the edge. This makes it harder to evaluate the edge visually. The best solution to this might be changing to a reversible motor. The thing I do now is keep an old bulk tape demagnetizer handy.

Yes, everyone needs a good microscope! I am blessed with laboratory microscopes, a low-power stereo scope, and a cheap USB digital scope. The inexpensive microscope solution is the USB digital microscope connected to a computer. It is certainly a painless way to get digital photos! The model a friend and I both bought has reasonably good optics but came with a weak stand (but that can be changed.)

JKJ

[Jamie Straw]

[Snip] BTW, if you use a microscope to compare the burr, knocked off burr, honed, and polished edges you can really see the difference. The edge with the burr knocked off by turning looks pretty ragged.

JKJ

John, wouldn't that (the bold sentence) give a less clean cut, say for finishing cuts?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

One annoying thing with using a CBN wheel on a Tormek when sharpening from the front (with the wheel moving away from the edge): since all tools become magnetized there is usually a long trail of black steel dust trailing away from the edge. This makes it harder to evaluate the edge visually. The best solution to this might be changing to a reversible motor. The thing I do now is keep an old bulk tape demagnetizer handy.

JKJ

I just got a CBN for my Tormek also, and I'm loving it. I use an aluminum radiator antifreeze bath vice water. In light of Robo's research about using the lapping fluid on a CBN, I don't know if I'm damaging it or not. Too late now. It does keep the wheel nice and clean. I hated that ribbon of black dust too.

Still trying to find a CHEAP demagnetizer.

About honing, I hone with a slipstone, but I hone mostly to remove the pith that accumulates from our pithy tropical woods. I've honed long enough so all the gullets are nice and smooth. Not sure if that affects anything at all.

[John K Jordan]

John, wouldn't that (the bold sentence) give a less clean cut, say for finishing cuts?

Yes, that was the point - compared to the honed edge, if I left the burr on the gouge the edge was relatively rough when broken off by the turning. I don't think the rough edge would make much difference in most turning, except for perhaps not lasting as long. But if used on ebony, for example, the scratches get transferred to the wood. A coarser wheel would make a rougher edge and deeper scratches. With a polished edge I get almost a polished finish cut. On a good tool control day the sanding is minimized.

I've read where a polished edge will last longer (Tormek claims this too) - I haven't done comparison tests myself but it sure seems to last longer, especially on a Thompson spindle gouge!

JKJ