fixing to pull the trigger

[Stephen White]

We own a pottery and I am buying a laser cutter/engraver to primarily deep engrave high resolution logo graphics into acrylic plastic and wood to make finely detailed stamps.

The size will be 3"x4" and these stamps will be used to make an impression on a similarly sized piece of clay (badge) and these badges will be placed on a hand thrown pottery mug or beer stein at the same time the handle is added.

The depth of the engrave needs to be at least 3mm and even 4mm or 5mm might be preferred on some images. Clay shrinks by as much as 20% when it dries and fires twice to over 2000 degrees so deep engraving is the only way to go.

I can only afford entry level machines and since this is my first cutter/engraver experience I thought I should steer clear of cheap imports. I don't have time to tinker around and need to be up and in production mode as quickly as possible.

I am currently leaning toward this one with an upgrade to the 60W co2:

https://www.bosslaser.com/boss-ls-14...l#.V1MZnrn2a01

I have queried the company twice with no response yet, does anyone know if such deep image engraving will work with this laser cutter?

I would appreciate any additional feedback on my project and recommendations. I already know that the very best solution would be a much more expensive 100w unit but I just cannot afford it. This boss with the 60w upgrade is about as much as I can spend. Would one of the other entry level machines be better suited? I was at one time considering the full spectrum.

[David Somers]

Stephen, Hopefully others will step in who have more acrylic experience than me, but I think you might be happier engraving Corian than acrylic for this purpose.

Also, unless you have other needs specifically for a laser have you thought about doing a CNC instead? Or.....perhaps a small micro sandblaster? The beauty of a sandblaster if you are working primarily with pottery projects is that not only could you make your stamps using it, but you could also blast designs into the pottery itself AFTER it has been fired if you want. Then you avoid the shrinkage problem. Form your piece from the wet clay. Then fire it. Once cooled before you glaze it sandblast it and then glaze it and refire.

Just thoughts.....

Dave

[AL Ursich]

My first thought was... Whooooooo Nelly.... Throwing money at a business challenge can be big risk.... I would put the brakes on the purchase until you do a little more R&D.. Research and Development...

First I would try to find a local Laser to test your "Theory" and run some samples... Like posted above a CNC or even a Rotary Engraver may be more likely to produce the "Tool" you need to press the mud... The Laser has it's down side.... Burning up the Acrylic does not always give you a perfect cut and that cold melted blob sitting on the surface needs to be cleaned off... The Laser just does not make the plastic just go away as smoke... It sometimes just melts it into a mess....

That is where a CNC or a Rotary Engraver comes in... For the size and DETAIL you are trying to get... My money would be on a used Rotary Engraver... It HAS the ability to do the detail and HAS the resolution. I cut plastic sheet stock with my CarveWright hobby CNC but it does not have that good of a resolution and rounded corners are a little "Choppy". A Rotary Engraver like a STAR 912 or 9 x 12 inch would do what you want...

And remember Cast Acrylic can be cut or engraved but the same design in Extruded Acrylic will MELT and the cooling plastic freeze to the bit making a big MESS and damaging the machine. Think about using Corian Scraps too...

Good Luck,

AL

[Mike Null]

I have engraved acrylic for essentially the same purpose you're trying to achieve. Cast acrylic should do the trick but it will take several passes. Corian will work too but it is even harder to achieve a deep engraving.

I don't think you can achieve highly detailed engravings with a rotary machine but it would be faster and cheaper.

[Stephen White]

Thanks Mike, will check out cast acrylic.

Al, thanks for the input. I will take into account. We are by and large talking about using this cutter/engraver for making the stamps for mugs and tumbler badges and there are a number of folks using lasers cutters to make and sell these stamps to potters. Its a mainstay of studio potters to personalize items for companies, individuals and lines (think garden or holiday theme) from time to time. We throw the mugs on the potters wheel just like a thousand years ago and then add pulled handles and possibly these stamped badges.

These stamps cost around $120 to have made and we are getting ready to do a large line of mugs that will utilize a large number of these stamps, 50+ and could run into hundreds. Most folks sell wood or acrylic I think and they need to be deep for potters as I mentioned for 20% shrinkage.

Dave, thanks for the thoughts, as we get deeper into this we may well employ some of your suggestions for mixed media art. Our production stuff is done in batches of 10-15 at a time and spending that much time on an individual piece would have to be one at a higher price point than $25 mugs would be. This cutter is for the badges though and I want to be able to achieve the same quality as the ones we order out.

We are both very good with tech, I have a great deal of experience with hardware and program computers professionally and my partner was a graphics designer for 15 years before potting full time so there's that. The design software of choice will be illustrator but we could use Corel or something else if needed.

Can anyone explain to me why none of the specs for these machines list depth? When doing my R&D I see that getting to 3mm needs 'deep engraving' but none even seem to cover this. Can I assume since the BOSS will cut up to 1/4" that engraving a res detailed image 1/8" can be done?

When you say two passes do you mean run it once at 1/16" and then again for another 1/16th?

[Mark Taylor2]

Stephen,
I'm not a commercial laser type, but are any of your suppliers local? Just a thought to go visit one and see what and how they are using it. I would tend to think a CNC mill/engraver might be your best bet.

[Bert Kemp]

I think the reason you don't see depth mentioned is for one it will very so much depending on material. Also for making stamps you will most likely be rastering and not vector cutting, so 2 or more passes will be required to get the depth your looking for. I'd also stay away from FSL. I have heard they were doing better so I sent them some questions to answer and they would not answer my questions, they gave me the run around.So as far as I can see there the same ol same ol

[AL Ursich]

Mike, thanks for the correction on the rotary engraver. And Stephen is way farther along in the R&D than I imagined... Sounds like a plan....

Good Luck,

AL

[Mike Null]

Al, I think it all depends on what the "detail" is. Some things would certainly make more sense with a rotary.

Stephen--depth is dependent on power, speed and material. I have a 45 watt machine and it takes 2 or 3 passes to get 3mm on cast acrylic. I could do it with two passes but over powering the material sometimes yields bad results.

[Scott Marquez]

Stephen,
Can you post pictures of some of your current stamps, that might give us a better idea of the depth and detail of your desired results.
thanks, Scott

[Stephen White]

Thanks everyone. Here are some examples. We don't have any like this yet as we have been using the scrapbook stamp maker (4th pic) for basic stamps such as garden badges and nice artwork (see attached) but stamps are not deep enough to do logo images and too much detail washes out on many of them. We have a Zing KNK and although we haven't tried it, this would not get us deep enough for a 3x4" high res logo image with the shrinkage, too washed out and with placement manual I don't think the multiple passes will work on this machine, right?

The first three are examples from the web of what I want to achieve and the last is the little stamp maker we currently use but not deep enough for detail to do images on clay with the 20% shrinkage.

deepengravestamp2.jpgdeepengravestmp.jpglogstamp.jpgscrapbookstamps.jpg

Thanks everyone for your help, it is really appreciated!

[Stephen White]

I just wanted to add that although the making of these high quality pottery stamps is primarily driving this purchase it also will now provide a host of other uses in our business and may well add other small revenue streams. Pottery is a very labor intensive, low revenue business. You do not open up a pottery to make money but rather you open a pottery because you love making pottery and you try like hell to piece together enough revenue streams to make a meager living.

So this is just a first project I want to do with a laser cutter/engraver so I don't want just the best narrow solution to my project.

(although I am an equipment junky I do try to at least start out with a problem looking for a solution instead of the other way around :-)

Could anyone tell me something about this entry level BOSS?

[Bert Kemp]

I can't tell you about the Boss But I have a Rabbit 60watt and their very similar machines and near the same price range. My bed size is 600x400mm or approx 24" x 16" engraving area is a little less but close enough. So far it hasn't given me any mechanical trouble after a year and a half. I use it maybe 20 hours a week . Doing the type of work you looking to do it will take several pass's to get the depth . You'll want to use lower power to keep the acrylic from melting. I've made a few small stamps from delrin and they came out just fine. Just remember its not going to be quick doing what you want to do but it will do it.

[Scott Marquez]

Here is a crazy thought, would you have better luck with a 3D printer, which would build tall letters rather than trying to burn away material??
Scott

[Bill George]

I would ditto the 3D printer and it could do pictures one and two without an issue. Its something you could start and walk away from. I have a MakerGear M2 which I believe is top of the line.