Quality Control on Crystal Awards: Where are you drawing the line?

[Ross Moshinsky]

I have a constant battle with crystals. They are nice and considered a premium product but the finishing on them is mediocre at best. I'm supposed to be running 70 simple crystal awards today for next week. Open up the boxes and I'm not joking when I say out of 8, 2 are clean. The rest range from minor imperfections (bubbles and small hairline scratches) to decent sized (1-2") scratches which will catch the finger nail.

We've always maintained a certain standard that when we hand a product to a customer, it shouldn't have a scratch. I'm finding it harder and harder to maintain that basic standard. I'm wasting hours doing QC on products and it's killing production.

So my question is simple: What are you doing? How are you dealing with the questionable quality of the product's we're receiving?

[Braden Todd]

Yeah I'd freak if I saw the awards in that condition. What supplier did they come from?

As far as QC, I've been told I am to strict but if a small register mark doesn't come out properly (sandblasted) the award needs redone. With that said, the award should be flawless since they are a premium item. I do give leeway on bevels not being uniform, but scratches are inexcusable. I don't even attempt to use the blanks I return them and request rush shipping on the replacements.

Good luck!

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'm not going to name names because I've found this to be a universal truth from JDS, PDU, and Marco.

I've devised several methods to deal with the inconsistencies in sizes of the awards but the surface finish is the issue. We reject scratches but I'm forced more and more to accept little bubbles/imperfections. I have ~75 blanks here. If I was actually being strict, I'd have roughly 20-25 awards to engrave and the other ~50 would go back. Those numbers are just ridiculous. Which means that I'm simply being too picky. So I try to adjust my expectations to a point where my rejection rate is something like 20-30%.

Real world numbers on this project: 6 boxes of 8 pcs (48 total). 15 send backs. 3 with thicknesses with too much variation to engrave with my standard program. That's a 31.25% rejection rate not including the ones where the thickness varies too much. That's also with me overlooking the minor imperfections. To me, 31% is just too high. Not to mention the time wasted by doing all this QC work. It adds a lot of time onto the production.

[Keith Downing]

I'm not going to name names because I've found this to be a universal truth from JDS, PDU, and Marco.

I've devised several methods to deal with the inconsistencies in sizes of the awards but the surface finish is the issue. We reject scratches but I'm forced more and more to accept little bubbles/imperfections. I have ~75 blanks here. If I was actually being strict, I'd have roughly 20-25 awards to engrave and the other ~50 would go back. Those numbers are just ridiculous. Which means that I'm simply being too picky. So I try to adjust my expectations to a point where my rejection rate is something like 20-30%.

Real world numbers on this project: 6 boxes of 8 pcs (48 total). 15 send backs. 3 with thicknesses with too much variation to engrave with my standard program. That's a 31.25% rejection rate not including the ones where the thickness varies too much. That's also with me overlooking the minor imperfections. To me, 31% is just too high. Not to mention the time wasted by doing all this QC work. It adds a lot of time onto the production.

IMHO if you are paying a premium price from a "reliable" US supplier, claiming to provide goods of the highest quality, then I would expect near perfection. And you should get it too. The top shops should do just about anything to make you happy and to avoid (legitimate) negative feedback on social media ... or here.

If you're buying bulk from discount suppliers, or direct from china, you should probably be prepared for a 20%+ reject rate. But if you're paying $3 per award instead of $15 per award it stings a lot less.

It's an integrity move not to name names out of frustration, but if the shop doesn't immediately make it right then I think you have every right to warn the community that a supplier isn't living up to their responsibilities.

[Glen Monaghan]

We reject scratches but I'm forced more and more to accept little bubbles/imperfections. I have ~75 blanks here. If I was actually being strict, I'd have roughly 20-25 awards to engrave and the other ~50 would go back. Those numbers are just ridiculous. Which means that I'm simply being too picky. So I try to adjust my expectations to a point where my rejection rate is something like 20-30%.

I was getting powder coated parts from a supplier and found 90 percent of them had problems that I found to be unacceptable (such as drippy/blobbed finish, chips, particle inclusions in the finish, and/or scratches). After talking with the supplier, I shipped the rejects back and got them replaced with ones that the supplier "specially inspected" for me. About 50 percent of the replacements had similar, albeit less significant, defects. About a fourth were what I considered perfect and the rest were "acceptable" (for example, the powder coat finish wasn't quite uniform in appearance or there was a particle inclusion on the underside or back, etc. This went on for five quarterly purchases, with each new batch improving on the problems of the previous but also adding new issues (for example, the first batch was primarily chipped, the second batch had few chips but many were dented/scratched, the third had even fewer chips and not so many dents but most pieces had particle inclusions in the finish, etc.). I started looking for a new supplier and sent so many parts back for replacement that I feared the supplier would "fire" me before I could find a better supplier! To my surprise, I recently got a phone call from the supplier's head of CS, who thanked me for bringing the issues to their attention and for my patience as they worked out their production problems. My last batch was about 80 percent perfect, and only a couple percent rejects, the remainder being "acceptable".

So bottom line, maybe you aren't being too picky. Instead of adjusting (lowering) your expectations, try talking to your supplier about your concerns. Ask them (as I did) whether they find the defects you're seeing to be acceptable quality for their product, and they most likely will agree that they need to improve their processes. If you don't say anything, how are they supposed to know you aren't happy? If they don't respond affirmatively, then you'll either a) have to find a different supplier who will do better, b) experiment until you find an acceptable way to rework/correct the defects, c) cave in, accept materials that don't meet your standards, and hope your customers don't push back, or d) failing a-c, get out of that line of work... but I suggest you start by talking with your supplier and elevating the problem up to a manager/executive.

[Ross Moshinsky]

IMHO if you are paying a premium price from a "reliable" US supplier, claiming to provide goods of the highest quality, then I would expect near perfection. And you should get it too. The top shops should do just about anything to make you happy and to avoid (legitimate) negative feedback on social media ... or here.

If you're buying bulk from discount suppliers, or direct from china, you should probably be prepared for a 20%+ reject rate. But if you're paying $3 per award instead of $15 per award it stings a lot less.

It's an integrity move not to name names out of frustration, but if the shop doesn't immediately make it right then I think you have every right to warn the community that a supplier isn't living up to their responsibilities.

It's one of the "big three" JDS, PDU, and Marco. The reason I'm not going to name names because I've found all three have the same issues. I will also mention this is a ~$15 cost crystal. As far as crystal goes, it's on the less expensive side but it's also a relatively simple piece. It's also obviously made in China.

Final rate of rejection was 28 out of 75 which is 37.33%.

As for talking to my suppliers. I have. I've mentioned more than once to sales reps and suppliers. There is a general consensus that the suppliers are "doing their best" to get good product but they are also focused on keeping prices down. At this point, I'm not sure how much suppliers can do. We've moved all our manufacturing to China. They are no longer bidding for our affection. They just do "their best" and that's what we get.

I've just found consistently that crystal and sublimation items that aren't metal, are high rejection items.

[Braden Todd]

If possible I'd try ordering from topmost, I've been pretty happy with them for a number of years.

[Keith Downing]

It's one of the "big three" JDS, PDU, and Marco. The reason I'm not going to name names because I've found all three have the same issues. I will also mention this is a ~$15 cost crystal. As far as crystal goes, it's on the less expensive side but it's also a relatively simple piece. It's also obviously made in China.

Final rate of rejection was 28 out of 75 which is 37.33%.

As for talking to my suppliers. I have. I've mentioned more than once to sales reps and suppliers. There is a general consensus that the suppliers are "doing their best" to get good product but they are also focused on keeping prices down. At this point, I'm not sure how much suppliers can do. We've moved all our manufacturing to China. They are no longer bidding for our affection. They just do "their best" and that's what we get.

I've just found consistently that crystal and sublimation items that aren't metal, are high rejection items.

All good points. But what it comes down to for me, is that they are charging a significant premium on the pieces they are getting from China. For that premium, I expect them to have a higher level of quality control. Either by working successfully with their own suppliers to ensure quality merchandise, or by running their own quality control and weeding out the items that aren't up to snuff. Otherwise, why would we ever pay them as middlemen when you can buy direct from China yourself.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Otherwise, why would we ever pay them as middlemen when you can buy direct from China yourself.

I have had the same problem for 10 years regarding wood items & plastic sheets that arrive scratched in every order. It is very time-consuming to have to sort through the scratches and see if I can find a scratched item that I might be able to engrave over and hide the scratch - or put it in the pile to return. Why do I not buy direct from China? The answer is probably the same as many others on this forum. I don't want to buy a container load of product.

[Bert Kemp]

Back when I was a working stiff in manufacturing we had a goal of 1% or less rejects and if we didn't meet that goal we got a talking to. So that means if you order 100 awards only one would be allowed as a reject anything more would be unacceptable. After all you are the customer and your paying for good parts or awards, you should expect nothing less then that and it should not be your job to do QC.

[Kev Williams]

I never buy that stuff myself. BUT, I have a promo customer who supplies ME with crystal awards THEY buy and have me engrave.

I have run into size inconsistencies, but aside from a couple of parts with scratches in the colored foil bottoms, I can't remember ever finding a scratch or bubble surface blemish. Now, I'm not talking hundreds and hundreds of the things, but I've done several batches of various crystal pieces, some orders of 5 to 10 pieces, some 20 to 40 pieces, etc. Largest single order of similar pieces were acrylic, no scratches or bubbles on those either...

I'm pretty sure these guys deal direct with manufacturers in China and totally avoid 'the big three'...

[Brian Leavitt]

Unfortunately, it's just a fact of life these days with your standard awards suppliers. For me, Airflyte has been the best of them, but they're still not great. Marco has been the worst I've used. Size inconsistency is terribly common.

[Mike Null]

I can't recall ever having a reject from Tropar/Airflyte.

[Ross Moshinsky]

If possible I'd try ordering from topmost, I've been pretty happy with them for a number of years.

The issue I have with Prism is that they are clear across the country from me. So that's a lot of freight and a lot of time. We order from them on a rare occasion but the 4 day ship time is often a deal breaker.

All good points. But what it comes down to for me, is that they are charging a significant premium on the pieces they are getting from China. For that premium, I expect them to have a higher level of quality control. Either by working successfully with their own suppliers to ensure quality merchandise, or by running their own quality control and weeding out the items that aren't up to snuff. Otherwise, why would we ever pay them as middlemen when you can buy direct from China yourself.

I can tell you with near 100% certainty that nearly no QC is being done by the suppliers. I purchased a lot of a sublimation item earlier in the month that was completely flawed. It wouldn't sublimate properly at all. It's clear that the order comes from China, goes through customs, and gets put into the warehouses and is ready for delivery. I assume someone is paid in China to do testing, but obviously they are either overwhelmed by the task or just don't do their job well.

The thing about shipping direct from China, it's just not all that realistic. For the shipping to be cost effective, it needs to go in a shipping container. The container needs to go through customs, get sorted, and then shipped out to me via UPS/FedEX. Once all that's taken into consideration, I doubt I save more than a few bucks. 70 pcs is a nice order but it's not big enough to justify going directly to China. From my experience, the only thing I can justify buying from China is custom medals and pins and that's because they can throw it in a box and ship it FedEX/DHL.

I never buy that stuff myself. BUT, I have a promo customer who supplies ME with crystal awards THEY buy and have me engrave.

I have run into size inconsistencies, but aside from a couple of parts with scratches in the colored foil bottoms, I can't remember ever finding a scratch or bubble surface blemish. Now, I'm not talking hundreds and hundreds of the things, but I've done several batches of various crystal pieces, some orders of 5 to 10 pieces, some 20 to 40 pieces, etc. Largest single order of similar pieces were acrylic, no scratches or bubbles on those either...

I'm pretty sure these guys deal direct with manufacturers in China and totally avoid 'the big three'...

Acrylic is a 100% more user friendly. The whole manufacturing process is just far more consistent and as a result, we get more consistent products. The other major benefit of acrylic is it's easy to buff and get a good surface. I also believe the molding process is way easier than crystal. Doing acrylic awards is cake compared to dealing with crystal. The issue is, people still want crystal. I have a customer that would rather buy small, simple, crystal awards than a nicer, larger acrylic.

Unfortunately, it's just a fact of life these days with your standard awards suppliers. For me, Airflyte has been the best of them, but they're still not great. Marco has been the worst I've used. Size inconsistency is terribly common.

I can't recall ever having a reject from Tropar/Airflyte.

We order a lot from Tropar. I've found their QC to be better than the other guys, but not a huge amount. I've done larger orders of a few of their items, in particular their art glass awards, and they've had problems. My issue with Tropar on an order like this is they don't do quantity discounts, which baffles me. I pay the same price whether I order 1 pcs or 200 pcs.