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Thread: "Standard" saw

  1. #1
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    "Standard" saw

    Howdy All,

    I came across a panel saw this weekend I can find no info on. When found it had the usual dark but decent plate with an etch visible but unreadable through the rust. Luckily, no pitting though. The handle has a Disston USA medallion and is questionably Disston shape. The handle style does seem to be from the first half of the 20th century.

    Upon a little cleanup the etch shows a to be a Standard plate. No other info on it though. I wish I would have taken the picture before I put oil on because it was much easier to read then. Internet searches have come up dry for saws or companies marked Standard.

    standard saw etch.JPGstandard saw handle.jpg

    My apologies for the upside down pics.

    Can anyone give any info on it? Its most likely been pieced together. I haven't had time to pull the handle off to check the holes. It's stamped to be 9tpi but was retoothed to 5.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Looks like someone has filed "peg teeth" onto the blade. This is not a good tooth configuration. Will not cut as well as a normal configuration. These type teeth cut equally well in either direction. But not particularly well.

  3. #3
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    You're right, they are. Set way too much also. The kerf was almost .125". it'll take a lot of work to get it back into shape.

  4. #4
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    Have you tried the Disstonian Institute site? Has a complete history, medallion photos, etc. may help.

  5. #5
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    Too much set will make a saw work terribly. I had an old rip saw many years ago that cut terribly rough. When I tapped down the set,it was like night and day.

  6. #6
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    thanks but no info. it mentions nothing other than disston and warranted superior.

  7. #7
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    I was thinking more in terms of trying to match the medallion. I can't see what your's looks like, but it may help to at least date the saw. Or does the medallion say "Standard" as well?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark kosse View Post
    You're right, they are. Set way too much also. The kerf was almost .125". it'll take a lot of work to get it back into shape.
    With that much overset I'd recommend pressing them back into place with a machinist's vise (the kind with parallel flat-ground jaws).

    If you don't have one you can improvise with a conventional metalworking vise and 2 pieces of precision ground steel bar stock. The general idea is to use the bar stock as floating jaw inserts, such that they conform to the sawplate and press the set out as you tighten the vise. I made mine by bonding a piece of Aluminum angle stock to the back of each steel insert, such that I can rest them between the vise's existing jaws with the angle stock holding them vertically in place. I also use a layer of rubber between the insert and the vise on at least one side to take out non-parallelism in the vise.

    Be sure to allow the sawplate itself to float when you press it in a vise (either kind), or else you'll press in a kink. You can put sheets of paper between the inserts and the saw to leave a desired amount of uniform set in place.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 04-20-2016 at 4:21 PM.

  9. #9
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    I agree about pressing the teeth back. With the amount of set the teeth have,they might well break off some. So,the most gentle method of flattening them needs to be employed. Hammering them down might break teeth off.

    I recommend the teeth be flattened before any re filing takes place. If even ONE tooth breaks off,it means that you will have to re file all the teeth to below the cracking point of the broken off tooth(S). Save yourself the trouble of doing it all over again and reduce the set to begin with. Squeeze them down,using the paper in the vise method. The method has been discussed here before,but we can describe it if you need. DON'T even THINK about jointing the SIDES of the teeth to reduce that amount of set. You'd probably run out of metal! For real!!!
    Last edited by george wilson; 04-20-2016 at 4:29 PM.

  10. #10
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    Seeing as I'm the saw whisperer around here I think I'll take a crack at it . *clears throat*That is a Disston no.085 with an Atkins junior mechanic or a Simonds osceola handle on it and the medallion is misplaced, it should be in the middle. Now I agree with George, if you joint the sides you'll weaken the teeth and you'll have to set them wider. Good luck!
    Last edited by Brent Cutshall; 04-20-2016 at 4:58 PM. Reason: Cawse I mispelt stuffs

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    I agree about pressing the teeth back. With the amount of set the teeth have,they might well break off some. So,the most gentle method of flattening them needs to be employed. Hammering them down might break teeth off.

    I recommend the teeth be flattened before any re filing takes place. If even ONE tooth breaks off,it means that you will have to re file all the teeth to below the cracking point of the broken off tooth(S). Save yourself the trouble of doing it all over again and reduce the set to begin with. Squeeze them down,using the paper in the vise method. The method has been discussed here before,but we can describe it if you need. DON'T even THINK about jointing the SIDES of the teeth to reduce that amount of set. You'd probably run out of metal! For real!!!
    If the toothline is really 0.125" wide then it's almost certain that he would run out of metal by jointing. The plate would have to be 1/16" thick (half of 0.125") to avoid it, and I'm not aware of any Disstons like that. Even with the press method I think there's a pretty high risk of snapping teeth. Adding that much set would have caused a fair bit of strain-hardening, and bending strain-hardened teeth back is problematic even with a low-impact approach like pressing (hammering would likely be a disaster IMO). Even if he can get the set back within reason I suspect they'll be noticeably more difficult than usual to file. We ski tuners often encounter a similar problem when trying to file the strain-hardened aftermath of rock impacts...

    I have my doubts about that 0.125 number though. Even with 5 tpi peg teeth I doubt you could put that much set on a saw without snapping some teeth, so I'm cautiously optimistic that that was a typo or measurement error :-).

  12. #12
    "The Standard" was one of many trade names used for saws manufactured by the Monhagen Saw Works of Middletown, NY --

    The MSW are probably best know for manufacturing the Wheeler, Madden & Clemson line of handsaws.

  13. #13
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    You may have your doubts, but I don't. Even with my diminishing vision I still see things in 1/64th's.

    Did you happen to see the "almost"?

  14. #14
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    Thanks Brent, that helped.

    I was thinking it wasn't a Disston but the 085 makes sense. Disstionian makes no reference to the 085, or any trade saw that I see. I did find some references at the old tools archive to it and it's rebranding, for pretty much anybody who wanted one.

    When I get some time I'll pull the handle and see what the holes look like.

    george, I have a 5" machinist vise that will be perfect for the job of flattening. I don't use it much because of its size. Of course I better check to see if it is 5".

    Thanks folks, m

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark kosse View Post
    You may have your doubts, but I don't. Even with my diminishing vision I still see things in 1/64th's.

    Did you happen to see the "almost"?
    It wouldn't surprise my one bit. Many people have no knowledge of how a hand saw works yet they know a saw set is a saw sharpening tool. Some fool likely put all the set he could on the improperly filed teeth and figured he'd done good.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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