Dovetail cutting. Tools for improving results.

[Gene Davis]

I've been doing OK with a cheap pullsaw, a $15 Shark 10-2204 Dowel/Dovetail/Detail Saw.

To step things up a notch, I was considering a spine-backed saw and one of the magnetic guides.


On Jay Bates's YouTube channel, he shows dovetail cutting using a dozuki saw like the one I show here from Lee Valley. About $40 including tax and shipping. He is using the David Barron magnetic guide, about $60 delivered. So, $100 for this setup.

Then there is the Lee Valley combo set, saw and guide, that I show in a second pic. The saw is not backed, but the description of the setup seems to say a backed saw will not work with the guide. This setup will run me about $70.

I know there are more expensive options here for doing this, but I am a cheap guy. What do you think?

[Jim Koepke]

To me it looks like training wheels on a bicycle. Once you can move along without them they will not do as much to improve your work as will practicing with what you already have.

The other aspect keeping me skeptical is these would need to be moved with each cut. Then when you have the first half done, will they work for making the second half of the joint's cuts?

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

To me it looks like training wheels on a bicycle. Once you can move along without them they will not do as much to improve your work as will practicing with what you already have.

The other aspect keeping me skeptical is these would need to be moved with each cut. Then when you have the first half done, will they work for making the second half of the joint's cuts?
jtk

Yes, they'll work for the second half. You just need to rotate them so that the angled part is on the top instead of the face (or vice versa if you're one of those "pins first" degenerates).

I think your broader point is right, though: You'll never learn to cut accurate joinery if you rely on those.

[Tom M King]

I don't think there's a real shortcut to skipping the practice required to develop the skill. It's one of those things that's easy once you know how. You might remember learning to ride a bicycle.

[justin sherriff]

I just made myself a guide all I did was glue up 2 pieces of wood at 90 degrees. then on the table saw cut a 10 degree angle on each side. drilled a 1/2 in hole and epoxied in 2 earth magnets in just like the David Barrons.

magnets I used. I put 2 magnets in each hole they are much stronger being 2 deep.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161799887597...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

here is a nice guide on making on like Bavid Darrons
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

I used a Veritas carcass saw and it worked good for me.

[Mike Henderson]

You do not need a guide to cut dovetails with a saw of any kind. You can learn to saw straight without any of those aids.

But in the meanwhile, you can cut close to the line, then trim to the line with a chisel. There are tools you can use to check that your tail (or pin) is straight in the places where it should be straight.

Mike

[justin sherriff]

here is a pic of what I made. It is a big help for me I am just learning how to use a hand saw.
Use it so start and you can pull it away or keep it in place to finish the cut. make one to see if you really like it or not.

[Gene Davis]

OK, I can buy into not needing the guide. I have done fine without one so far.

But the saw seems lacking. The $15 Shark Saw pull-stroke has flex to its unbacked blade. Might I do a whole lot better with that $35 dozuki I show in the first post?

[Tony Wilkins]

Probably better with a straight saw yes. I'd go with a 210mm ryoba from stu at tools from Japan though, or a 170mm 'craft' kataba.

[Tom M King]

Good tools make the work easier. Not many could ever get good results with a Shark Saw.

[Jeffrey Martel]

I have one of David Barron's guides. You can get them at highland woodworking now. I had to order them directly from him when I got it last year. I can say that it helps quite a bit. I use a Lee valley molded spine dovetail saw on it. I can't cut full depth with it in 3/4" stock, but it gets you most of the way there, and then the kerf will keep the saw straight for the last 1/4" or so in 3/4" stock. It's definitely made them way easier than cutting without.

[Curt Putnam]

There are at least two parts to good dovetails: sawing and chiseling. Both parts take practice. I've got many a scrap piece that have accumulated well over a 1000 and more probably 2000 practice cut lines. Get your backsaw and start practicing. Just use a saddle square and mark lines down both sides and start cutting. Once you are happy with how straight you are sawing, then start making a dovetail or two a day. That will continue to improve the sawing and really help with the chisel skills. JMO

[Denny Tudor]

Or you could make a Paul sellers dove tail guide out of scrap pwood , buy a $8.97 Stanley hack saw at walmart and $1.99 14 tpi blade at menards and have at it fir under $12 tax included. Not sure the wood knows the difference.

[Patrick Chase]

There are at least two parts to good dovetails: sawing and chiseling. Both parts take practice. I've got many a scrap piece that have accumulated well over a 1000 and more probably 2000 practice cut lines.

IMO what Curt says here is the key.

I once spent the better part of 2 months going out to the shop every night after work and doing nothing but the 8 basic dovetail cuts (left/right through tail, left/right through pin, left/right blind tail, left/right blind pin) over and over and over and over until I could reliably cut along my knife lines. Those were some seriously boring nights of course.

As I tried to suggest above, there is more to saw-cut joinery than dovetails, and using dovetail guides doesn't develop the sort of foundational skills that you'll need in order to execute other joints. You'll be better off in the long run if you build those basic skills instead of cutting corners (pun intended).

[Derek Cohen]

There are a couple of tools I recommend for dovetails.

The first is a decent saw. If you are looking for an inexpensive Japanese saw, get a Z-saw. They are superb.

The second is a knife to transfer lines. I saw the tails first, and the knife is used to mark the pins. A slim-bladed knife is essential is cutting narrow dovetails, but when you are starting out with wider tails, you can use any single bevel knife. A single bevel will register more easily.

The most important saw cut is the square line at the top of the line when sawing tails. I always scrape this a little deeper with a Glen Drake Kerf Starter.






My eyesight is not what it used to be. Seeing fine transfer lines in, especially, dark woods is difficult. I developed the use of Blue Tape a couple of years ago. This makes is easier to see the lines to which you cut.

Article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...hBlueTape.html

Dovetail markers and a decent set of dividers are part of my standard equipment for dovetailing. The markers I made, and the dividers I have are by Starrett.

Lastly, make a Moxon Vise. It makes it easier to hold the boards to mark, transfer marks, and to saw.



Regards from Perth

Derek