Kiyotada Chisel Pics 1/5 Oire & Mukomachi Chisel Sets

[Jim Koepke]

Probably more information than you wanted, but the price was right.

I found it an enjoyable read. Thanks for sharing.

Though I may never own a Japanese chisel, it is interesting to learn about something different than what I am using.

jtk

[David Wong]

Stanley,
Really beautiful finish stones. Amazing consistency and purity on your honyama. Thanks for taking the time to photo and post them. I had a not-so-expensive natural stone separate on the sedimentary layers on me. It was a thick (grade 30) soft stone, and I was careless not using it with a base. I repaired it with cashew lacquer and paper, and now have it attached to a wooden base. Documented here.

david

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley,
Really beautiful finish stones. Amazing consistency and purity on your honyama. Thanks for taking the time to photo and post them. I had a not-so-expensive natural stone separate on the sedimentary layers on me. It was a thick (grade 30) soft stone, and I was careless not using it with a base. I repaired it with cashew lacquer and paper, and now have it attached to a wooden base. Documented here.

david

David:

Thanks for pointing out your post. Very interesting story. Perhaps I can fill in some pieces of the puzzle for the other readers.

Natural stones can and will fall apart. Don't leave them soaking in a bucket of water. Coat the sides.

As David's post illuminates, they can often be repaired, but don't count on it.

Cashew is not artificial urushi, although it is sold as such. It is a natural urethane made from the sap of the cashew tree, mostly sourced in Thailand. It does not need high temperatures or high humidity to cure, unlike urushi lacquer. I have used it for a long time for hobby projects, but also in construction projects as a finish material in hotel projects were the designer wanted an urushi-like appearance, but higher strength and abrasion resistance was indicated.

I don't know if kaki shibu will make the paper tougher than the Cashew will all by itself, but it will change the color. Of course, the Cashew will immediately change the color itself, so I think the kakishibu is just a traditional thing. Using washi paper to reinforce the sides makes perfect sense, washi being so strong.

A base is a good thing, but I don't see how one would prevent delamination of the stone.

Two cents.

Stan

[Brian Holcombe]

Stan,

Thanks for posting up those photos! Wow, that's a nice stone...approaches the egg color that is much sought after. That stone is a Honyama, so from Nakayama? It nearly looks like a synthetic, so quite top notch.

Anyone who has not tried natural stones, yes it's an expensive process, but one of the most rewarding. I'm very happy using natural stones, it's made a not so enjoyable process into a very enjoyable one.

My first stone is still one of my favorites, it's a Shinden suita of an odd shape/size and it's gorgeous to me because it works beautifully. David Weaver helped me to choose it from a AframesTokyo. I think that is a good place to start, along with the Koppa stones because until you know what you really enjoy you could spend quite a bit on things that you won't really want to use as you progress.

[David Wong]

Stan,

Thanks for the further explanation. I was not sure about the humidity and temperature requirements for curing the cashew urethane. The stone I showed was never soaked, as far as I know. I would always handle it by grasping the stone by its side. The delamination opened up when lifting it. I was certainly lucky the stone did not fly apart completely. I felt the stress of lifting the stone while not properly supporting its weight, contributed to the split. In any case, as you said, a base is a good thing.

David

[Joey Arispe]

Unbelievably beautiful chisels Stanley. I'd be very proud to have such gems.

I want to buy my first set of Japanese chisels soon. I'm want a set of butt chisels that will last my entire life.

I'm thinking of the Koyamaichi white steel oire-nomi chisels that toolsfromjapan.com has for sale. Would you recommend that brand for a beginner who wants to take these chisels with him to all stages of his journey?

Thanks


http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1339

[Stanley Covington]

Unbelievably beautiful chisels Stanley. I'd be very proud to have such gems.

I want to buy my first set of Japanese chisels soon. I'm want a set of butt chisels that will last my entire life.

I'm thinking of the Koyamaichi white steel oire-nomi chisels that toolsfromjapan.com has for sale. Would you recommend that brand for a beginner who wants to take these chisels with him to all stages of his journey?

Thanks


http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1339

Joey:

I have never used Koyamaichi chisels, and so cannot speak to their quality, but several other people I respect have praised them. They are advertised as being made from White Paper steel, which is indicative of a blacksmith with an above-average level of skill paying above-average attention to QC. They are clearly Kansai style chisels probably from Miki, and so are probably a bit softer than I like. What can I say... I am a chisel snob.

But the price is very good, and the Yen exchange rate is still in your favor, so they might make a decent choice. I have no doubt that, with care, they will be very useful for your entire life, however long that may be.

On a practical note, the nice thing about chisels is that you can always use another set. I have my Kiyotada chisels, but I also have the set of "beaters" by Kiyohisa here in Japan with me, and another set of beaters (Ouchi or Iyoroi, I don't remember which) in the US which I bought in Sendai before I really new much about chisels. And I have had other sets I ended up giving away to my sons and friends. If you find a set you like more later, well then price of the Koyamaichi set is not so high that you will regret it.

I hope this helps.

Stan

[Joey Arispe]

I have no doubt that, with care, they will be very useful for your entire life, however long that may be.

On a practical note, the nice thing about chisels is that you can always use another set. I have my Kiyotada chisels, but I also have the set of "beaters" by Kiyohisa here in Japan with me, and another set of beaters (Ouchi or Iyoroi, I don't remember which) in the US which I bought in Sendai before I really new much about chisels. And I have had other sets I ended up giving away to my sons and friends. If you find a set you like more later, well then price of the Koyamaichi set is not so high that you will regret it.

Stan

Thank you Stan! I really appreciate your insight. Hope I live long enough to hold some nice chisels in my own hands...hah

I plan on buying a set of old used Japanese chisels on Ebay, too. I plan on restoring them. I figure I could use some of the ones I don't like as my beater chisels and still probably find some great chisels.

[Dave Beauchesne]

Stanley:
Thank you for sharing the pictures and information. I have an interest in any Japanese tools, as our daughter in law is a Fukuoka native. Alas, unless the planets align, owning some of the primo chisels is a slim chance.
I like the piece of Tamo you used as a background for the photos. I was gifted a piece when I went to Japan to visit our DILs family - they took me to see Nashida San ( a master carpenter on the South Island ) and he graciously gave me a small piece of Tamo as well as some camphor wood.
Thanks again.

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley:
Thank you for sharing the pictures and information. I have an interest in any Japanese tools, as our daughter in law is a Fukuoka native. Alas, unless the planets align, owning some of the primo chisels is a slim chance.
I like the piece of Tamo you used as a background for the photos. I was gifted a piece when I went to Japan to visit our DILs family - they took me to see Nashida San ( a master carpenter on the South Island ) and he graciously gave me a small piece of Tamo as well as some camphor wood.
Thanks again.

Dave:

Good luck getting some good chisels.

Tamo is a great wood. I need to turn that board into the facings of a cabinet for my wife someday.....

Stan

[Allan Speers]

You know, "Japanese tool porn" is like watching people shag with their clothes on.


The very best stuff is often so unassuming..... but therein lies the beauty.
The absolute pinnacle of "function over form," or something like that. (Damascus steel notwithstanding.)

[Brian Holcombe]

I used to really like mokume and all of that type of stuff (still do with hammers, though I do not own any mokume gennou), but eventually found the highest appreciation for things like sen scraped ura, black oxide finished ura, gumi handles, filed hoops and white steel.

The sex appeal is still plenty there, but refined. I did not get (understand) gumi handles for the longest time, but then I acquired a few chisels with them and the material was very clear, pale yellow and with pith in the center. It was clean like plastic but nice to handle. Using it is just great, it absorbs hammer blows nicely with just enough spring to it.

[Stanley Covington]

I used to really like mokume and all of that type of stuff (still do with hammers, though I do not own any mokume gennou), but eventually found the highest appreciation for things like sen scraped ura, black oxide finished ura, gumi handles, filed hoops and white steel.

The sex appeal is still plenty there, but refined. I did not get (understand) gumi handles for the longest time, but then I acquired a few chisels with them and the material was very clear, pale yellow and with pith in the center. It was clean like plastic but nice to handle. Using it is just great, it absorbs hammer blows nicely with just enough spring to it.

Never tried gumi handles, the color seems strange....

My chisel fetish is at the point where I find myself humming like Homer Simpson when I see subtly blended, carefully aligned deft filework on a chisel's neck, shoulder, and back (Ichihiro), or sink a newly sharpened tataki nomi into a timber, and pull it out and see the bevel smiling back at me, ready for more cutting (Kiyotada) ....

Plane blades get more credit, and are often unjustifiably more expensive based on manhours expended and skill requirements, but the fact is that chisels are so much more difficult and time consuming for a blacksmith to make well; Each a small, precise sculpture that must endure abuse and extreme forces.

Stan

[Brian Holcombe]

I wasn't over the moon about them until receiving a set of Konobu with gumi handles. Wherever he sources his handles from must be absolutely top quality, both the shitan rosewood and gumi are really the best I've received.

I like white oak as well! I have a set in white oak (well 4....so a small set, hah).

[Steve Voigt]

Those are some great looking chisels, Stan. Thanks for sharing.