dust collection expectations?

[Greg Visser]

So I'm brand new to the dust collection world. After nearly 40 years of working around the mess, I finally commited to installing a system. I found a Laguna cyclone on craigslist with all of the ductwork and a complete Ivac system, cheap. I added a Powermatic air cleaner and a Fein vacuum with a dust deputy. I think I've got all of the bases covered, now.

I don't know what to realistically expect from the system. For example, when I use the planer or jointer there is still a small amount of dust/shavings ejected onto the bed of the machine. Things are much, much better, but I don't know how to tell if it's as good as it can get. Maybe the projection of the jointer knives affect dust collection? Things like that I don't know.

I'm currently hooked up to a Unisaw, a DJ20 jointer, a Belsaw planer, a Meber bandsaw, a router table, and a radial saw. Still trying to figure out how to rig the sliding miter saw. I ran 6" ducting to all of the machines, then transitioned to 4" within a few feet of the machine. The table saw is 5" into the machine.

So how much cleanup do you guys that have had your systems for a while end up doing. When I see the shop pictures on here, I think some of the systems must do a perfect job!

Thanks,

Greg

[Marty Tippin]

I don't know what to realistically expect from the system. For example, when I use the planer or jointer there is still a small amount of dust/shavings ejected onto the bed of the machine. Things are much, much better, but I don't know how to tell if it's as good as it can get. Maybe the projection of the jointer knives affect dust collection? Things like that I don't know.

I'm currently hooked up to a Unisaw, a DJ20 jointer, a Belsaw planer, a Meber bandsaw, a router table, and a radial saw. Still trying to figure out how to rig the sliding miter saw. I ran 6" ducting to all of the machines, then transitioned to 4" within a few feet of the machine. The table saw is 5" into the machine.

So how much cleanup do you guys that have had your systems for a while end up doing. When I see the shop pictures on here, I think some of the systems must do a perfect job!

You didn't say how big your cyclone is (in HP). That information would be helpful.

You'll probably never get to 100% dust collection, but you should be pretty close. The planer and jointer are the two biggest chip-producing tools in the shop and need a lot of air volume for efficient dust collection; if you're not getting complete extraction of dust and chips you may need to run a bigger duct to the machines if possible.

In my shop with a 3HP Grizzly cyclone, I run 6" to within about 3 ft of both of those machines, dropping to 4" only for the flexible run to the machine. My dust collection is very good at both machines - I do find that when I'm edge-jointing a piece, I do get some chips ejected from the machine but otherwise, it's pretty negligible. I could improve my extraction if I upgraded to 6" ports on both machines - the 8" jointer could be easily retro-fitted with a larger port, but the 15" planer would take more jerry-rigging than I have the energy for so I'll just be satisfied with what I have a the moment.

I run 6" duct all the way to my tablesaw, but I still end up having to sweep the floor a little bit every night after I'm done working - I don't have an overhead dust collector, and some cutting operations on the tablesaw (i.e., cross-cut sled) just result in a lot more sawdust getting ejected from the top of the machine.

But other than the table saw, I have little if any sweeping to do after a day in the shop - and that was my primary goal in installing the cyclone (I don't spend enough time in the shop to warrant a serious concern about breathing fine dust particles.)

You might post some more details about your system and maybe a few photos of the duct runs, etc.

[Greg Visser]

It's the Laguna 2 horsepower cyclone. There doesn't seem to be a lack of suction at any of the stations. I'm just wondering if I need to tweak things on some of the machines to optimize dust collection. My motivation was also primarily for making less mess. The floor sweeps for instance suck up anything within about 10 inches of the front of them which seems like plenty of suction.

When I originally decided to do this, I intended to buy the Oneida cyclone. I called Oneida and went over all of the machinery, distances and layout and they recommended a 2 horsepower collector. Right before I was ready to place the order, this one came up on craigslist with lots of ductwork, most of which I was able to reuse, and the full Ivac system with 6 automatic blast gates, remotes, etc. It was just too much to turn down.

I don't have overhead collection yet on the tablesaw, but did plumb in a 4" wye for it. Right now, it's just capped off, but I've been considering the shark guard.

Thanks,

Greg

[Ole Anderson]

There are some operations you simply cannot catch all of the dust/chips: miter/chop saw, free hand routing/edge treatments, ripping off a sliver on a TS or using a sled to name a few. Frequency of sweeping partially depends on your floor surface. The rougher it is, the less frequently you will need to obsess on sweeping. I have a narrow board oak look Pergo, so I sweep frequently just so I don't grind stuff into it as I slide things, like my stool, around. But being very smooth, it is a breeze to sweep clean with a horsehair push broom compared to the old rough concrete underneath. Compare the volume of sawdust in your barrel first time you empty it compared to how much you catch in a dustpan in the same time period and you know why we do dust collection. Dust collection is best on my router table, nearly 100%. Pretty good too on my 6" belt sander. My only hand sander that I use a vac hose is my PC right angle ROS. My others I just use the catch filter. I have a 6" running to my MS, a 5"/3" to my TS, 4" flex to my 6" belt sander, 6" jointer, Delta lunchbox planer and my BS. 2 hp Oneida SDG, 7" main duct to 6" or 5" drops reduced at the machine to final size. And I have an ambient air cleaner. Basement shop.

[Greg Visser]

Freehand routing is one of the ones I've done nothing for, yet. I don't even know where to start. I've got a Porter Cable 690 and 7518. The 7518 resides primarily in the router table. I use the Fein for the track saw and the sanders and it seems to be a great solution, although somewhat of a nuisance to use. I just haven't seen much available as retrofits for dust collection on routers.

Thanks,

Greg

[Dan Friedrichs]

Some machines "fling" chips, so the first step in improving collection, there, is to arrange for the chips to strike some surface in order to get them to give up their kinetic energy. It takes much less airflow to move a stationary chip than one just flung off a sawblade. Thus, things like overarm guards are useful because they provide a surface for the chips to strike before letting them get sucked away.

That said, transitioning to 4" at the machine is a bad idea, and should be avoided if possible. If you transition from a 6" duct to a 4" port on a machine via a few feet of flexible duct, you incur about 6x the static pressure loss compared to 6" flex duct and ports.

[Don Jarvie]

You'll never get 100% so if you can get 80-90% your doing good. The air cleaner will help get the fine dust. We work with wood in a confined area so there is no way to completely seal everything unless your willing to spend a fortune to do it, ie, new machines that are designed to minimize dust.

There are attachments you can get for routers and other hand power tools that can be hooked up to a vacuum. A ROS is a good candidate for this.

[Jim Becker]

One thing to keep in mind is that dust collectors don't do most of their work via "suction"; to the contrary, they work by moving large volumes of air that in turn moves the dust and chips along with it. That's why larger ports and duct perform better...more air can enter and move through them at a given speed and moderate pressure drop. Vacuum cleaners, including shop vacs, work exactly the opposite way moving relatively limited amounts of are through a smaller path with a much larger pressure drop...they depend upon suction.

This is related to your question in that the design and size of the collection port on the machine materially will affect collection performance. Unfortunately, with most tools, the port isn't capable of providing ideal collection due to many factors, including size, location relative to chip and dust making blades/knives, etc. It's normal to lose some material that's flung by the cutter even when the port design gets most of the fines due to high airflow

Nature of the beast!

[Tom M King]

mitersawDC 003 (640x480).jpgmitersawDC 001 (640x480).jpgmitersawDC 005 (640x480).jpgYou need to move a Lot of air. You know you have enough on a planer when something comes out the front, hovers for a split second, and gets sucked back in and away. I do get it all on a sliding miter saw. It's in a thread here somewhere. Some of the heavy particles stay in the box, but no fines in the air.

[Jim Dwight]

They mainly get rid of the bulk of the mess in my experience and can improve air quality. I've been using my cyclone equipped shop vac as my only DC and moved it into the house to clean up after myself. I don't like carrying it in and out (the cart is 3/4 plywood and adds significant weight) so I've used the same tools in the shop that normally get hooked up to it (table saw, CMS, track saw) without the vac. What a mess. I need to do one more messy task today (scraping popcorn ceiling off a 4 foot by 20 foot area), clean that up, then get the vac back to the shop.

(I also had a DC in the last shop, a little 1hp so I have some experience with it too and agree with the posts above. My only DC comment is that in my opinion, a DC without good filtration on the exhaust (cartridge or at least 1 micron bags) is a health hazard. They spew the fine dust up into the air to be breathed)

[Art Mann]

I am a lot more worried about inhaling large quantities of microscopic dust that can cause COPD and other lung problems than I am about getting every last shaving from my thickness planer. You can have a dust collection system that prevents you having to sweep but does very little to protect you lungs. On the other hand, you can also have a system that allows a few escaped chips but has good enough filtering and large enough mass air flow to remove most of the micron and sub micron sized dust. Check the specifications on your filter and its condition.

[mike mcilroy]

I also have the Grizzly 3 hp cyclone but my TS, SCMS, jointer planer and router table have 6in ports. As was mentioned earlier there is next to nothing from these machines now. Sometimes there will be a few small chips at the end of a cut on the planer but not often. The router table a few strays as well, but in both cases a sweep back toward the machine and the left overs disappear. The SCMS will sometimes have dust bounce off the fence and stay beside the saw. I just give it a touch of compressed air and the cyclone takes care of it!
I hope you expectations are met because the work is more fun when you do not have to stop because of coughing or poor breathing. My experience has been amazing stuff that I used to try to find other ways of doing because of the breathing problems caused(SCMS ,router table) are back to straight forward operations with no dread.
Good Luck

[glenn bradley]

Ah, dust collection threads; so many opinions, so many experiences. There is a wealth of conversation on this topic and I have learned a lot of good stuff from it over the years.

2HP cyclone and not perfect ;-) After developing a problem I went to the cyclone for air quality reasons. I do get some heavier stuff during certain troublesome operations. For example; edge trimming on the tablesaw where the blade is not captured; the velocity blasts stuff off the open side faster than it gets pulled under the table. However, the air stays pretty clear as indicated by my lack of reaction to it. Some operations shoot spoil with a greater velocity than a DC's airflow will capture. This is why I use shop vacs for these operations. I have added quality filters to the vacs to help maintain my air quality and the greater suction velocity at the vac is superior to a large duct DC for these specific operations.

Tablesaw, jointer, planer, drum sander, bandsaw, etc. all use the cyclone with good success. That being said, cyclones vary widely in performance curves and sub-optimal choices in duct path and material can lower performance even further. Ideally there would be little to no back pressure on the exit. If you have a bag below the filter, is should not inflate like a balloon. If it does, try cleaning your filter. Mine inflates but, the pressure is very minimal; you can easily collapse the side of the bag with light finger pressure