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Thread: Questions about preparation and use of Arm-R-Seal Oil & Urethane Topcoat

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    236

    Questions about preparation and use of Arm-R-Seal Oil & Urethane Topcoat

    I am building a kitchen Island of cherry with a natural finish. When in woodworking store the other day I was discussing what finish to use with a salesman. I wanted a durable smooth satin finish without spraying and without the plastic buildup look. Salesman recommended General Finishes Arm-R-Seal (Oil & Urethane Topcoat) Satin with 6 or more coats. I said I would like to use foam brush rather than spray and was told that I could do that and should wipe it soon after applying.

    When I got home I read the instructions "Preparation of Surfaces" on the back of the can, it says to sand raw wood no finer than 150 and the finish no finer than 220. I already sanded the beaded face frames to 320 and the legs were sanded on a lathe to 220 and show cross grain scratches. It is pretty difficult (not practical) to sand all parts of the legs with the grain to remove the scratches. Only way to make the scratches invisible on the end grain areas is to use 320 or higher grit. The beaded and transition areas are not able to be sanded with the grain.

    I checked General Finishes website for better understanding of what could be the problem if I use their product on smooth surface and did not find an answer nor did I find a contact number or email to inquire. I only found Facebook, twitter, etc. and blog sites I could look at and post to. A quick look at the blog site for Arm-R-Seal had old posts so I felt it was unlikely I would receive timely feedback. Some day I may do Facebook but currently I am not comfortable with it.

    In the past I have applied polyurethane, both water and oil based, from several manufacturers (not General Finishes) using spray, foam brush and wipe on. I have found that I had better results obtaining a smooth finish when I sanded the raw wood to 220 prior to finishing and then sanded to 320 after 1st or 2nd coat of water based and then 320 before final coat with either oil or water based. I usually applied 3 to 4 coats.

    My questions are:

    1. What happens if I sand all the raw cherry wood (the face frames are currently sanded to 320) to 320 prior to finishing with Arm-R-Seal?
    2. What happens if I have different parts sanded to different grit, say 320 on face frames (because they are already sanded) and 220 on the legs? Both these are beyond the recommended 150 grit and the wood has visable scratches after sanding with 220. Will they disappear after finishing? I don't think so.
    3. If I use 6 coats of Arm-R-Seal Satin, will the the wood color and grain be blunted or dulled due to satin build up? Basically, I am wondering if it would be better for me to use gloss on all but the last or last 2 coats?
    4. The panels are not installed yet but will be finished before installation. The carcass as shown in attached photos will be finished with 2 coats to seal it inside and out and final exposed surfaces will be 5 or 6 coats.
    5. Would I be better off using a different urethane or polyurethane finish?

    It would be nice to have a customer support phone number to call at General Finishes or at least an email.

    Thank you

    Bob

    Resize of Island 3.jpgResize of Island 5.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    I've been using Arm-R-Seal for at least 8 years, and have used gallons of the stuff. I've had such good luck with it that I've never looked for another wiping varnish. OK, answers to your questions:

    1 & 2) The only thing that might happen by sanding to different grits is the color or how much the grain pops might be different. That's doubtful, but I could imagine it. I almost always sand to at least 180 grit and sometimes to 320. I've never had a bonding problem. I always sand with 320 or 400 grit between coats.

    If you have visible scratches they will be visible after the finish is applied - get rid of them unless you want to look at them forever.

    3) Good plan; use gloss for all but the last one or 2 coats. People say a finish won't get cloudy no matter how many coats of satin you apply, but my experience with ARS has shown it does.

    4) Only finish the inside if it will show. What doesn't show doesn't get finished in my shop or might get a coat of shellac, but not often.

    5) No, ARS is a great product. However, don't brush it on and then wipe it off. ARS is a wiping varnish. You apply it and leave it on. You can use a brush if you like, but don't wipe it off. It's not an oil/varnish mix, even though the name implies that it is. It's varnish, and you don't wipe varnish off. In fact, trying to do so can result in a real mess since it starts to set up very quickly.

    Above all, make samples until you are satisfied with every step of the process.

    John

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    N.E, Ohio
    Posts
    3,026
    I have called General Finishes and gotten answers to questions. I believe their address with city and state are on their website. Then look their number up using switchboard.com, that is what I did.

    John is giving you excellent advice. He knows his stuff on finishes. I did a project using dye for color and then gloss ARS and it came out great, six coats wiped on.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    236
    Thank you John and George. I feel much better. I didn't think of using phone book. Your comment sure set me back and made me ponder what has happened that I don't use a phone book or even think of using one anymore. Such a basic tool of yesteryear had disappeared from my life.

    Bob

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    I forgot to mention that you can find GF's phone number on their SDS sheets. Here's the info. from the Arm-R-Seal SDS:

    General Finishes 2462 Corporate Circle
    East Troy, WI 53120 U.S.A.
    Phone no.: 262-642-4545
    Toll free no.: 1-800-783-6050
    Fax no.: 262-642-4707
    Web: GeneralFinishes.com


    John

  6. I used Arm R Seal Gloss wiping varnish on a previous project and got great results. If you're doing 6 coats, I would be hesitant about using satin for all the coats, as you may diffuse the range of colour in your piece. The constant advice I've gotten from finishers is to use gloss product, and possibly go to a lesser sheen only for the last coat, or simply rub down the sheen.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    236
    Thank you for information and advice.

    Also, I left a message for Tom at General Finishes and he called me today. He gave me his email address and asked me to email him if I had any more questions. I did pick up some gloss today and will use it for first 2 coats and then maybe only one or 2 more coats of satin over that. I will try a couple scrap pieces first.

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