To PVC or not to PVC; that is a QUESTION!

[Thomas Hempleman]

We've all heard you shouldn't laser engrave anything containing PVC. But we've also heard you shouldn't laser cut anything with PVC. We've also heard that cutting is OK if you have air assist and a good vent system because very few toxic and corrosive fumes are produced in the cutting process. I have had LaserPro dealers tell me it's OK and others tell me it's not OK. I have read both opinions in this forum. There seems to be no agreement on whether or not it's safe to vector cut vinyl. The problem is, I have customers who would like me to occasionally cut some sign vinyl for them. The color selection in non-PVC vinyls is pretty limited. My customers want red and green and blue, etc. - not gold, silver or sparkly mylar. They want Pantone matched colors which just aren't available in mylar. Almost all sign vinyl is PVC based. Since I have only the laser to do my cutting, I have turned down some vinyl cutting jobs.

So here is the question: Has anyone ever destroyed a laser by occasionally cutting (not engraving!) PVC vinyl? Has anyone ever dropped dead from laser cutting vinyl? Not wishing to do either, I am very cautious. Maybe too cautious??

Thanks for any info or opinions!

[Rodne Gold]

We vector cut with our mecurys and explorers on the odd occasion , with no problems. We cut a lot of acrylic with covers in place and I think this is PVC based - no ill effects over 5 yrs of using em
Vector cutting sign vinyl is not great in terms of results , its very difficult to get a clean non melt cut like a blade and not easy to hold flat with air assist going and a cheap vinyl cutter does a far better and quicker job anyway
There are no dire warnings in the manual or the GCC site re cutting it. I do know a co that uses their lasers to do this exclusively for the slot macine trade and they throw their platforms away after about a yr and a 1/2 but they have paid for themselves many times over by then. And they can normally scavenge many parts
They use a chem scrubber for fumes.

[art baylor]

Acrylic is a completly different polymer than vinyl and/or PVC. No PVC in Acrylic.

[Rodne Gold]

The protective covering which is still in place when the acrylic is cut is often PVC based however.

[art baylor]

Good point about the acrylic covering.

Other than the paper coverings, I always thought the other type of protective covering was polyethylene based, but I guess I'm not sure. There are many more brands than there used to be.

There is a fairly easy test by burning a small piece, but it has been too long to remember the differences for flame color, smoke, and dripping. I suspect oder is no longer recommended.

I have no idea about the sticky part that holds the covering to the acylic.

I guesss we need to ask for the manufacurers safety sheets and detail.
The distributors should be able to get the info.

Like Rodne said, the guys that know they are cutting vinyl/PVC use "chem scrubbers" for the fumes.

[Thomas Hempleman]

Thanks for the input, folks. I guess I'll continue to avoid any PVC cutting just to be on the safe side. My exhaust system vents directly outdoors. Even though I'm out in the boonies with no neighbors close by, the fumes might kill a possum or a tree frog. Then the environment people would be on my case.

[Kevin Huffman]

Hello Guys/Gals,

As far as cutting PVC, it just isn't the fumes that are hazardous. When you cut PVC it creates a gas that is really corrosive to metal. I can usually tell if a machine has been used to cut or engrave PVC. There are screws that are rusted that aren't usually rusted. There are parts that do not move as freely as they should. There is this smell that you will not soon forget.

If a machine comes to our facility's for repairs and we find out it has been used to cut/engrave PVC the warranty will be voided. That is just from a manufacturers point of view. So be weary if you are still under warranty and are working with that stuff. It may have a negitive effect on your warranty.

[James Stokes]

Innotech of Wisconsin has vinyl that is non pvc

[Linda Creatore]

I just purchased some acrylic sheets for Sloans Woodshop (a supplier of wood and acrylic, etc. for scroll sawing, woodworkers)...it has a paper covering on it. Are you saying that this might be PVC based? What is PVC based? Certainly not the paper itself....the stuff used to get it to stick to acrylic? There is no sticky residue or anything on the acrylic if the paper is pulled back.

Someone said something about how to check if the backing is PVC based but couldn't remember how to do it....can anyone else elaborate on this?

What about the covering that is on Laserable Plastics from a place like Johnsom Plastics or IPI or Rowmark?

Thanks,
Linda

[Shari Loveless]

Linda,

I was also concerned about pvc content on the covering for acrylic sheet. I buy from Delvies in Utah. I contacted Lucite direct and one of their tech guys said there was no problem. The new covering is just polyethelene and will not hurt the laser. It doesn't flame like the paper used to either. They were very nice about calming my fears of "eating" up my lasers. Maybe you can email the company who makes your acrylic sheet and they can give you a straight forward answer.
Shari

[Joe Pelonio]

I have at times cut thru sign vinyl, the mfr (Arlon) tech told me that it contains very little PVC and that the premium is so thin that it should not create toxic fumes or damage the laser. My use was covering black acrylic and cutting for colored letters with black edges. Epilog rep told me that polycarbonate is fine, and have cut a lot of thin but when trying to do 1/8" or 1/4" found that there
was bright yellow smoke, and refused to do the job. Not sure if toxic but just
made me very uncomfortable. Have cut ABS up to 1/2" and nylon up to 1/4" with no problems, both also engrave OK.

[Dotte Courtney]

I have had my versa laser 200 for aobut 2 years, in the begiinning I was cutting alllot of vinyl. The first tube went out in 3 months, the second about the same. I have not cut anything with PVC since and have had no problems. Was it the vinyl that did it, I think it was, the machine just did not run very well and would get dirty so quickly. So is it worth it? NO the warrenty is voided and new tubes are really expensive. Dotte

[Joe Pelonio]

Dotte,

You are right, and that's why I avoid doing it and clean thoroughly after. Damage to the tube would not be caused by the cutting of pvc but by the lenses or mirrors being heavily built up with residuals. A guy I know cut 3mm
pvc foam board (Sintra) and after an hour without cleaning burned up the head
as the debris on the mirrors caught fire, also melted the belt, and with that small amount of time it corroded interior surfaces that later rusted. No way I'd ever
try to cut that stuff. Some other items that do work and are good substitutes
for PVC are Polystyrene, Polyester, Polyethylene, Polypropylene.