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Thread: Toolchest Lid-Mounted Tools

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lau View Post
    That is a great mindset.

    I'm not sure why you'd be criticized though?
    By the way, did you have formal training in carpentry?

    -Matt
    In answer to your question, I went through the carpentry apprentice program when I was a young man in Las Vegas, NV where I grew up. I worked as a carpenter in the commercial construction field for some years, and put myself through college doing custom joinery and cabinets on the side. My father was trained as a cabinetmaker, and he taught me a lot about tools and cabinetwork and workmanlike attitudes. I did several mini-apprenticeships in Joinery and carpentry when I was a student and later working in Japan in the construction industry. I completed a formal training course in Kumikozaiku, that is, patterned interlocking latticework used for shoji and ramma in traditional Japanese architecture.

    I have worked as an independent carpenter and joiner several times. And I have been picking the brains of skilled craftsmen, and having them critique my work, and teach me better methods, for a long time. I work in the Japanese construction industry again now, and occasionally have the chance to discuss tools and woodworking methods with talented finish craftsmen. And I hang out with blacksmiths as time permits.

    You can see that my training and focus has been skewed heavily towards professional, no nonsense, get the job done right, and right now dammit, type work. The people I learned from did not tolerate errors, naval-gazing, or amateurs. They did not consider skill with tools alone to be sufficient for a man to call himself a craftsman. High quality, speed, deftness, and volume were mandatory. And he must work so that the customer or employer can discern that speed, skill, and deftness in concrete results. Therefore, no sharpening or tool maintenance in front of the customer, no hesitation in layout, no fiddling with tools, no admiring one's work, no redoing, measure once cut once.

    On this forum, I have been criticized for this attitude by those that see tool sharpening and maintenance as part of the job (which it is, but it is not the purpose of the job, and should not delay or interfere with the job) and something that must be done when it must be done (true, when you fail to prepare). They learned from different masters, or were perhaps self-taught. Most of these are hobbyists woodworkers (which I am now), that have never had to feed their wife and babies and pay rent using their woodworking tools. Most have not gone through the process of soliciting work, designing, bidding, hiring, training, contracting, procuring, and then working the wood to a strict schedule, but are blessed with the means to enjoy woodworking as a satisfying avocation with few pressures. Nothing wrong with that, but I have different expectations.

    I am uncomfortable unless I always have an extra plane ready to go when my primary tool's blade becomes dull, chipped, or the plane gets out of fettle. Likewise for chisels. This is not always possible in the professional world for space and weight reasons, but I believe it wise were possible. This also means that one's tools must be high quality (not the same as expensive or flashy), especially since they are a reflection of their owner.

    My opinions about sharpening induce vapours in the sandpaper and diamond plate crowd. Sharpening stone retailers despise me.

    My standards for precision are different than most on this forum, I suspect. I believe it silly to insist that the ideal way to cut a tenon, for instance, is to saw with a setback from the layout line, and then pare to the line with a chisel. This method, taught by some scribblers, is a crutch that stunts the development of essential, basic skills. The cut with the saw should be right on the line first time every time, and if a man can't do that, then he needs to practice until he can. That's the way I was taught, and I am grateful for it. Nothing wrong with the hobbyist without professional obligations or pressure using such methods, but I have problems with those that insist it is the "best way," when they will not make an effort to do better. Such opinions expressed wound the pride of some, instead of motivating them to improve their skills. Such is life.

    Stan
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 02-02-2016 at 9:36 AM.

  2. #62
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    Stan, I would love to see the Kiyotadas. I feel I have developed, over the past few years, an enjoyment of the subtly styled but very very good tools.....still can't resist exotic woods on paring handles....but we're all guilty of something

    I like your seriousness, I have tried to employ as much seriousness and dedication to effeciency in my shop as well. I noticed that if I only sharpen in the morning or evening, then I get a lot more work done. Being a majority hand tool shop I like to see how well I can pace myself to be always working quickly and effectively.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Stan, I would love to see the Kiyotadas. I feel I have developed, over the past few years, an enjoyment of the subtly styled but very very good tools.....still can't resist exotic woods on paring handles....but we're all guilty of something
    I too love a beautiful wood for a paring chisel handle. Don't think I have more than one or two with ebony handles.... Perhaps I should make some.

    I wish I could show some pics of my Kiyotada ootsukinomi. They would give you heart palpitations. But I do not have them with me here in Tokyo now.

    Give me a few days to take some pictures.

    Stan

  4. #64
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    Would love to see them when you have a chance.

    I've always wondered how they compare to something like Konobu, David Weaver and I have shared our experiences with these makers individually but I assume it would be eye-opening, or at least very interesting to try both.

    I assume it's like to comparing to Bond street tailors
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Would love to see them when you have a chance.

    I've always wondered how they compare to something like Konobu, David Weaver and I have shared our experiences with these makers individually but I assume it would be eye-opening, or at least very interesting to try both.

    I assume it's like to comparing to Bond street tailors
    Brian:

    I have 20 something Konobu carving chisels, and knives. But you need to remember that he does not make regular oire or tataki chisels. He makes fine paring chisels, but he specialises in carving.

    Kiyotada did some carving chisels, but not a lot.

    Konobu uses Blue Paper Steel exclusively. Kiyotada used mostly White Paper steel.

    So the comparison is not so much Bond Street tailors as Bond Street suit tailors and shirt tailors, IMO.

    I need to give Konobu a call. He was sick for a long time, but said he was getting back into production. Unfortunately, my latest order has not been completed, or at least he has not contacted me....

    Stan

  6. #66
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    Stan,

    Oh yeah, his carving chisels have spoiled me. I only have two, but they are divine, same with the paring chisels. A world of difference from the Ouchi set that I had been using previously, which was also nice...but these are next level.

    I'm waiting on a few from him as well, I bought four paring chisels and they were soooo incredible that I decided to finish the set of 10, not really needed (I don't need 10 paring chisels really), but I think the man's work is just incredible.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #67
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    Konobu's (Ito san's) shaping and finishing skills are second to none. And his heat treating work is top-notch. A very personable and humble man.

    I just spoke with him on the telephone now. He has had some back problems, he explained, with his herniated disc acting up again, probably because of too many hours at the forge and pushing files to catch up on work delayed by his earlier sickness last spring. He has spent several months unable to even walk, but after many hours in hospitals and enduring therapy, he is now back at work, he said. He has shaped my run of kiridashi, but needs to do the finish filing and heat treating, and will need a couple of more months. I told him to not worry about my order at all, but to get better and not stress himself.

    He is making a very interesting run of kiridashi for me, and I am impatient to see how they turn out. But not too impatient.

    Please remember him in your prayers.

    Stan

    http://www.konobu.com

    20101210_1737760.jpg20101210_1737761.jpg20101210_1737762.jpg20101210_1737763.jpg

  8. #68
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    I certainly will! He's creating some incredible work, but it certainly must take a toll on him.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #69
    Thanks for this thread I haven't read everything but really enjoy what I've read and learned. Maybe I'll have to peruse some more later

  10. #70
    Stan, Thanks for the insight.
    I'll be taking it back to my dental office and integrating it in how I do things.

    I was going to PM you to see how Konobu was doing, but your mailbox was full.

    Btw, can I get on your order list for a kiridashi?
    If Konobu san is still accepting orders, I'd love to order some chisels.
    However, I would;t want to overtax him.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lau View Post
    Stan, Thanks for the insight.
    I'll be taking it back to my dental office and integrating it in how I do things.

    I was going to PM you to see how Konobu was doing, but your mailbox was full.

    Btw, can I get on your order list for a kiridashi?
    If Konobu san is still accepting orders, I'd love to order some chisels.
    However, I would;t want to overtax him.
    Matt:

    I sent you an email. You are indeed on the list.

    Stan

  12. #72
    Stanley, good to have you here again. I don't know a lot about shellac, but the Orange is the most durable. Traditionally
    "durable" means water resistance ....not scratch proof etc. I once coated some wood samples with 3 coats of 1 and 1/2
    pound cut ,and weighted them down in water. Took 3 days for white edges to appear. I then removed them from water
    and the white disappeared. The bleached shellac is way less durable.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Stanley, good to have you here again. ...
    Uh, old thread. No change in Stan's status at this time.

  14. #74
    David. Thanks. And if I ever see a kid with one of those really nice Japanese wooden pull toys.... I will try to get him to trade it to me
    for a box of Lincoln Logs !

  15. #75
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    https://covingtonandsons.com

    Stans blog. He has some great multi-part post on chest, planes, chisels, saws, etc.
    Great sense of humor too. Sign up for email notices.
    Apologies if this has already been posted.

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