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Thread: Oklahoma Homestead 40x80x12

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrew View Post
    You might look at putting your storm shelter inside the building. We went through a tornado in 1980, had to go outside to get into the cellar, so we just sat in the house, and the tornado went around us. It took the barn across the road, and spread debris all directions around our old house.
    Jim, I'm thinking of building an above ground steel safe room in the house when constructed, or possibly one in the shop doubling as a gun safe. I've got a 8x4 gun safe room i built in my garage now.
    Jeff

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Doylestown, PA
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    7,551
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Honestly, since this is a new build...go LED up-front. IMHO.

    I recently added (6) 4' LED fixtures to my shop to replace aging fluorescent fixtures and couldn't be happier. And they are less likely to get broken when something goes "flying" in the shop, too.
    A huge +1 to that. I was finding that fluorescent tubes weren't lasting all that long -- we may turn the basement/shop lights on 6 times a day. I suspect that's why the short life. I'd read that fluorescents prefer to come on and stay on. LEDs don't care, some dimmers (did?) turn them on and off 50 times a second or some such silly number.

    I spent Sunday rebuilding a fluorescent shop light that didn't have a conventional ballast, the electronics are built into the ends. I bought 2 4' LED tubes that are 120 volt. I wasn't able to reuse the lamp holders so ordered 12 lamp holders that look like these from Ebay. They can be fastened about anywhere you like. The 120 volt LED tubes only require power on one end; the other end is only to hold the tubes. Pretty handy and the little suckers are bright!

  3. #33
    LED is the way to go I've concluded. Found these online and wondered if the specs look good to you lighting gurus on the forum. The price is certainly right, and now that I'm hanging them at 11-12 ft off the floor instead of 16, I'm not sure I need anything more substantial. I could do 4 long rows of 7 lights per row, which would give me 1 light for every 100 sq ft in the shop. I am on a budget, so I have to compromise sometimes.

    Thoughts?
    Jeff

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Upland, CA
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    1,344
    I didn't read your entire thread so don't know the use you intend for this shop but if will see moderate use:
    I can't imagine any way that fluorescents won't be your best choice.

    The light you linked is Task Lighting and may be a good choice for extra light over some workbenches, where the light is turned on for a short time. LED has some big advantages where the light is turned on/off frequently. For example, I have one building that has fluorescents in the main work area that is turned on in the morning and off at night. LED with occupancy sensors is used in an upstairs storage area where each row may be accessed for a few minutes up to a few hours at a time. Basically the occupancy sensor turns on that row of lights when someone enters that row and off after 10 minutes after no movement is detected.

    Based upon your large open area and 12' intended height, these will probably be your best bet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...-MVH/202193185

    It is very important to add efficient long life bulbs and not buy the junk bulbs from the BORG. They have two 120-277v ballasts so can be wired into two 3 bulb fixtures. Turn 3 bulbs on for general lighting and the other 3 when you need more light in that area. T-8 is the easy choice for eventual LED bulb conversion when they finally make more sense than fluorescents for general lighting.

    I have one building where I used the 8 bulb version of those for a total of 1002 bulbs. When they are ready to be turned off every 4-5 years for bulb replacement, we try to justify newer tech. So far, we have changed out some lightly used areas to LED bulbs and occupancy sensors and seem to be ahead but the 24x7x365 are staying fluorescents. We added some of the LED version of those as a test and they work well but the same light comes out of a smaller area meaning they really need to be at 18'.
    Last edited by Greg R Bradley; 03-07-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg R Bradley View Post
    I didn't read your entire thread so don't know the use you intend for this shop but if will see moderate use:
    I can't imagine any way that fluorescents won't be your best choice.

    The light you linked is Task Lighting and may be a good choice for extra light over some workbenches, where the light is turned on for a short time. LED has some big advantages where the light is turned on/off frequently. For example, I have one building that has fluorescents in the main work area that is turned on in the morning and off at night. LED with occupancy sensors is used in an upstairs storage area where each row may be accessed for a few minutes up to a few hours at a time. Basically the occupancy sensor turns on that row of lights when someone enters that row and off after 10 minutes after no movement is detected.

    Based upon your large open area and 12' intended height, these will probably be your best bet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...-MVH/202193185

    It is very important to add efficient long life bulbs and not buy the junk bulbs from the BORG. They have two 120-277v ballasts so can be wired into two 3 bulb fixtures. Turn 3 bulbs on for general lighting and the other 3 when you need more light in that area. T-8 is the easy choice for eventual LED bulb conversion when they finally make more sense than fluorescents for general lighting.

    I have one building where I used the 8 bulb version of those for a total of 1002 bulbs. When they are ready to be turned off every 4-5 years for bulb replacement, we try to justify newer tech. So far, we have changed out some lightly used areas to LED bulbs and occupancy sensors and seem to be ahead but the 24x7x365 are staying fluorescents. We added some of the LED version of those as a test and they work well but the same light comes out of a smaller area meaning they really need to be at 18'.
    Understood. You make a valid point. I suppose I want to embrace LED technology too soon for this application.
    Jeff

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
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    271
    I ended up going with retrofit LED bulbs as they were replaceable if I had issues in the future, they were super efficient and were CRI 90+ bulbs. Best thing was they are $10 a bulb on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Dua...Bcri%2B90&th=1

    also check out this thread. More info on LEDs. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...p-lights-19-99

  7. #37
    Thanks Chris, I'll check out the links. Whichever way I go, I do plan to buy a light or two of the leading candidate(s) and test in the shop when it's built in a couple months. Whichever I don't use in the shop, can be used in the storage room or living quarters/office. Since I'm going to buy 21-28 potentially, it's good to test first.
    Last edited by Jefferey Scott; 03-09-2017 at 6:08 AM.
    Jeff

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Upland, CA
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    Jeffery,

    I looked at your initial design. 21 of the fixtures I would probably choose in that 40x70 shop area at 12' would give you 111fc at 30" bench height.

    Depending on how you lay out your work areas and what will go along which walls, 15 is probably plenty.

    You would need 3.6 times as many of the 1000bulbs light you linked above. 75 for the 111 fc.

    LED lights like that are great for extra light above a bench or individual tool. Storage area where they are on/off regularly. Under 8-10 hour a day use, the low end LED lights like the Costco ones lose light output at about the same rate as good T-8 bulbs, which means the entire fixture will be tossed about the time T-8 fixtures need bulbs. Basically NONE of the LED worklights will tolerate high temperatures so extended use where it is hot will be a problem. This is one of the reasons they aren't meant to mount against a ceiling even thought that could work out in a cool climate.

    Testing lights can be a waste of time because almost everything looks great when they are new. LED life tests are a joke as they rate them for light output when new and then life at 30% light loss. This is based upon short use and guessing how long it will take for them to lose 30% light. Fluorescents from reputable manufacturers are rated at 10% light loss and the light output is specified at the mid point.

    When used 8-10 hours a day, one of the huge advantages of T-8 fixtures is they are basically permanent and the bulbs can be updated if/when LED finally makes sense for that use. I'm still using fluorescent fixtures I bought 40 years ago and expect to use new ones I install for 30 more years.
    Last edited by Greg R Bradley; 03-09-2017 at 9:32 AM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Dayton OH
    Posts
    17
    When we built are 40x80x14 we used cooper lighting are lighting distributor can do a design for free to give you how many lights height and spacing you want and brightness at the table height or floor level they can also give you the most efficient plan for different lights.

  10. #40
    Good information on lighting Greg, some i was not aware of. Thanks for taking the time to convey it.

    Doug, I'll check out Cooper, thanks.
    Jeff

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Hatfield, AR
    Posts
    1,170

    Lightbulb

    image1.jpg

    Here is what Atlas Lighting drew up for my shop - 40x70x10 (scissor trusses are 14' at center of shop)

    The main shop lights (ILH75LED4LS) are 9700 lumens with the lens and 10200 w/o lens. The dots and numbers indicate the FC on the floor. They have the lights layed out on 11.5' centers lengthwise and 13.3' width.

    Those lights are $220 each.

    I took this information and went shopping. Here is what I found: This fixture is LED ready and $45.08. These bulbs are 2310 lumens and $10.70 each if bought in bulk. 2310 lumens x 4 = 9240 lumens per fixture. Fixture and bulbs will run $87.88 each (S&H not included). That's saving $132 per fixture and still getting 95% of the light. The savings will easily allow for more fixtures if I need.

    Your layout is just like mine only you would need 3 more fixtures.

    If you go this route, you can put all lights on 1 switch. 18w per bulb is 72w per fixture. 72w*18fixtures=1296 watts. 120V * 20A circuit allows for 2400W, but only load that at 80% still allows for 1900W. Those lights only load a 20amp circuit 54%.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Justin Ludwig; 03-10-2017 at 10:55 AM.
    -Lud

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    15,332
    So when do we tackle your electrical layout! hahahaha!

    I'm looking forward to your build thread, Jeff, as these are always fun and allow me to dream a little for my future.

    I'm in a 2-car garage and yearn for more shop space but we'll see. And 54 is plenty young to get your shop going! Mine may not start until I actually retire in my 60s and it may not ever happen if I can't convince the wife to cash in on our current home and buy some land "away from it all" to build a big shop and modest home.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  13. #43
    Thanks for posting Justin! I like your layout and the fixtures look good. I like how some are turned the other way, I can see that working over work benches. Nice.

    Chris, I've been in a 2 car garage all my life so this is a dream come true. I had to really sell it to the wife, but she's on board now. We are excited about it
    Last edited by Jefferey Scott; 03-11-2017 at 6:59 AM.
    Jeff

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Hatfield, AR
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    1,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferey Scott View Post
    Thanks for posting Justin! I like your layout and the fixtures look good. I like how some are turned the other way, I can see that working over work benches. Nice.

    Chris, I've been in a 2 car garage all my life so this is a dream come true. I had to really sell it to the wife, but she's on board now. We are excited about it
    The lights turned side ways are in my paint/finishing room. They are label "H2" in their layout because they are a different vapor tight fixture. Those are $375 each, so I'm still shopping that fixture.

    Once my concrete is poured I'll start a thread on my shop. I'm waiting on weather...
    -Lud

  15. #45
    I'm waiting on the 10 other people in front of me to get theirs built Explosion proof lights aren't cheap, huh? Look forward to your build Justin.
    Last edited by Jefferey Scott; 03-12-2017 at 9:57 AM.
    Jeff

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