How was this made?

[Keith Downing]

You have got to be kidding! How can you say the process takes a minute when the guy in the video took 14+ minutes to demonstrate the process and he cut out the 20 minutes or more of wait times. Neither did he account for the time required to produce the negative. This process may be faster than CNC routing but not hugely so. There is another issue. At the end of the process, you have a thin sheet of plastic that will require either framing or laminating to a thicker backing before mounting. If I were carving such a project, I could choose a substrate that could be mounted directly. I do agree it is very impressive technology but I can't see it being a general purpose replacement for either conventional sign engraving or CNC routing. Based on the demo, I am not certain it would be any faster in this case.

Does anyone know what the equipment and raw materials cost? I agree that it has a lot of potential.

I could be wrong, but after watching the video, I would assume you can do all 4 parts of the process in parallel. So, while making one sign might take 20 minutes, making 20 signs also takes 20 minutes (assuming 4 signs per piece of photopolymer.

Guessing that's where his 1 minute per piece estimate is coming from when comparing to custom making them. Just my take, not an expert by any means.

[Scott Shepherd]

You have got to be kidding! How can you say the process takes a minute when the guy in the video took 14+ minutes to demonstrate the process and he cut out the 20 minutes or more of wait times. Neither did he account for the time required to produce the negative. This process may be faster than CNC routing but not hugely so. There is another issue. At the end of the process, you have a thin sheet of plastic that will require either framing or laminating to a thicker backing before mounting. If I were carving such a project, I could choose a substrate that could be mounted directly. I do agree it is very impressive technology but I can't see it being a general purpose replacement for either conventional sign engraving or CNC routing. Based on the demo, I am not certain it would be any faster in this case.

Does anyone know what the equipment and raw materials cost? I agree that it has a lot of potential.

Yeah, not how it works. Believe me, I'm in the sign business, have made 10's of thousands of signs. The actual cycle time once you have a set running is about 1 minutes. It doesn't require any additional backing, they provide a variety of materials and thicknesses to use. You saw a demo, a very slow demo. When you are running, it's very fast. I think the longest cycle was 4-5 minutes and you could fit 6 decent size signs in at a time, meaning every 5 minutes, you pulled out 6 signs. Producing the negative isn't too time consuming. Those are do using programs like InDesign, populating from a list, creating the files automatically, so all you need to do is make it.

There isn't another setup out there that will produce ADA signs as fast as that, unless you are molding them and in that case, they'd all have to be the same. I've probably looked at the machine about 5 times and we were really, really close to buying one years ago. You do literally compete with the big boys then. I know people that have them and their customers. Their customers are hotel chains, etc. When a hotel wants to rebrand themselves, these guys make all the room signs. They do it because it's the fastest, best way to make 10's of thousands of signs for 100's of hotels at a time. When you get a contract like that, you're talking millions of dollars.

Another company we do some work for has one and one customer is 1.1 million a year. They all have CNC routers and they aren't making any of the signs on those for a reason.

[Art Mann]

What I saw was an exposure, a wash and a dry cycle, and a color application each of which took maybe 5 minutes on average. Are you saying that the presenter demonstrated a method or product that isn't typical? The plastic sheet appeared to be 4-up. I would do the same thing if I were carving with my router.

[Scott Shepherd]

What I saw was an exposure, a wash and a dry cycle, and a color application each of which took maybe 5 minutes on average. Are you saying that the presenter demonstrated a method or product that isn't typical? The plastic sheet appeared to be 4-up. I would do the same thing if I were carving with my router.

Yup, and all of them are done simultaneously. The machine has 3 or 4 trays, each one a different cycle. You could easily shear them while it's running. I'm not making this stuff up, it's VERY fast.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Ross, a couple of comments. First, it's my understanding that Accent lobbied to have the "dome" part put in the law, but it's my understanding that it's not in there. I confess, I haven't looked for it since we use balls, so it doesn't matter. If it is in there, I seem to recall the people at Nova having a solution for it. It's in the way the graphic is done and the coating applied. I can promise you that what comes off those machines is ADA compliant. If not, it wouldn't be the machinery used to make the vast majority of every sign in every large complex in the USA.

As far as I know, domed/rounded is part of the rules and regulations as of a few years ago. As I said, you have to make sure as SOME aren't ADA compliant. I have first hand experience with receiving something that was not ADA compliant made by a polymer setup that was something like 15-20 years old. I don't know the details off making the braille domed/rounded, but I do know in their circumstance it was an extra step/process. My point really is that if you wanted to buy one of these machines, make sure you're getting domed/rounded braille and not flat top.

[Paul Phillips]

FWIW, I ran a "Jet" photopolymer machine for about 5 years and processed thousands of ADA signs with it for many big named Hotels and Resorts, if someone received photopolymer signs that were deemed "non compliant" then it was done wrong and it would have to be rejected by a licensed inspector. Like Steve said, this has been accepted as the primary method for producing high volume ADA signs for decades, BTW "rounded or domed" includes the photopolymer method, it does have to be done very precisely though or it will not come out right, once the process is done correctly then the correct amount of Matthews paint must also be applied to fill in around the flat spot and make it "mostly round". This is from the NovaPolymers site-
Once you have the proper dot size in the artwork and adequate exposure you will need to apply a top coat. This means a coating of paint for surface decorated signs or a clear coat for signs that are decorated sub-surface. We work very closely with Matthews Paint and per their specification you will need to apply a 4mil wet /2mil dry top coat on all photopolymer signs. This coating is the final step in creating complaint photopolymer Braille dots that "have a domed or rounded shape." - See more at: http://www.novapolymers.com/resource....fDjG8A7Y.dpuf
Some interesting reading- http://adacentral.com/ada-compliance...polymer-signs/
IMHO, having produced Braille signs for the last 20 years there is absolutely no problem with the Photopolymer method being compliant when done properly, in fact of far more concern is the issue of the design, materials used and contrast being compliant. On the other side of that coin is the person with little to no ADA knowledge making their own Braille signs using their own home made Raster method and using incorrect spelling methods and all Caps and using imprecise drilling methods that result in varying depths of Rasters that are either too shallow or too deep or a combination of both, are not properly inserted and end up falling out (I've seen it first hand!) At least with the Photopolymer method there is some training involved when you purchase the equipment which should include a basic understanding of the Laws and requirements.
Hope this helps bring some clarity. BTW, everything Steve described is spot on as to how it works, Raster method if faster for short runs and PP is for large qtys.
Paul