Glowforge release

[Dave Sheldrake]

So far as I can tell, all of the stuff Matt has been posting here is available for reading on the GF forum.

BTW, there is an ongoing discussion in the forum about whether or not the International buyers will have to pay VAT on the stuff that they got from GF, like the $150 of free ProofGrade. As is typical GF is silent on this. Must be another of those secret things that another company might steal or that hasn't made it through the patent process yet.

Yes they will, gifts have a commercial value even if it is given away freely. That isn't a guess either, EU tax (VAT) laws are very clear on this.They will also have to pay duty if the value is over £135 although duty under £9 is waived. VAT will have to be paid if the value is over £39.

2.2 Do I have to pay import duties and/or import VAT on goods sent to me?

Most goods arriving in the UK from outside the EU are liable to any or all of the following taxes:

• Customs Duty
• Excise Duty
• import VAT

and must be paid whether:

• you purchase the goods or receive them as a gift
• the goods are new or used (including antiques)
• the goods are for your private use or for re-sale

Also the gift ruling only applies person to person, business to person the entire value is subject to VAT and there is no lower end value assigned.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...outside-the-eu

[Mike Henry3424]

Yes they will, gifts have a commercial value even if it is given away freely. That isn't a guess either, EU tax (VAT) laws are very clear on this.They will also have to pay duty if the value is over £135 although duty under £9 is waived. VAT will have to be paid if the value is over £39.



Also the gift ruling only applies person to person, business to person the entire value is subject to VAT and there is no lower end value assigned.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...outside-the-eu

That's pretty much what one of the UK buyers has been saying. Seems a shame to pay tax on something you get for free.

[Dave Sheldrake]

That's pretty much what one of the UK buyers has been saying. Seems a shame to pay tax on something you get for free.

The way our government see's it, it may have been given freely but it still has value, hence "Value" added tax

[John Noell]

The way our government see's it, it may have been given freely but it still has value, hence "Value" added tax

So does my government. Unfortunately, we pay VAT (and duty) on the value of everything we get from overseas, other than some things for personal use worth less than F$400 (about US$190). Even if it is a free replacement under warranty, we pay. Two "free" tubes for my Epilog, replaced under warranty, had a very high value and cost me hundreds of US $$ to import.

[Lee DeRaud]

Seems a shame to pay tax on something you get for free.

It varies by locale, but the same thing happens in some jurisdictions here, e.g. getting a discount for whatever reason but having to pay sales tax on the normal undiscounted price.

[Dave Sheldrake]

The irony is, GF claim their sheets of paper LSO stuff is worth $1,000, that would also be subject to VAT and Duty if declared as a value on the paperwork.

[Matt McCoy]

The irony is, GF claim their sheets of paper LSO stuff is worth $1,000, that would also be subject to VAT and Duty if declared as a value on the paperwork.

Is this hypothetical? What do the other laser importers declare?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Is this hypothetical? What do the other laser importers declare?

None of them claim any value or suchlike for instructions. A lot depends on what an item is declared "as" Lasers are brought in under two classifications, "Industrial machines" and sometimes "Office supplies" the safety and CE requirements for the classes vary by a HUGE amount.

When a manufacturer claims a value on something, even when they give it away for free it changes the value of the package split for customs in the EU.

If I exported say

• Rocket Launcher $1,000
• Rocket for launcher $1,000
• Instructions for rocket launcher $1,000

Then sold the package for $2,000 customs will charge the VAT based on $3,000 not the $2,000 paid as that is the declared value on the export ticket.

EU customs can be really complex and a bit hit and miss to be honest...

On the LSO paperwork, the problem could easily be that companies and businesses here require an LSO to be appointed, it's a requirement of HSE regulations, offering paperwork as LSO training that actually isn't could easily put commercial ventures in hot water if an HSE inspector visits and wants to see the papertrail. I have two appointed LSO's here on staff and have to keep the paperwork for 7 years after any of them leave and make it available to authorised persons (ie: government) at any time just for the asking.

Regulatory controls and paperwork here for working with the use of lasers for commercial purposes is a nightmare, even for private use Lloyds (our biggest insurer) require that special insurance is taken out as lasers are considered a "Significant fire risk" so folks putting them in their kitchen etc may well find it invalidates their home insurance and Property use class.

If you have a 6,000 sqft house and use 500 sqft for the laser etc then that's likely going to be fine, you have a 1,200 sqft flat and use 500 sqft for the laser you will likely need a change of use registered with the local council and have to pay business rates if used for pecuniary advantage (gain)

[Matt McCoy]

None of them claim any value or suchlike for instructions. A lot depends on what an item is declared "as" Lasers are brought in under two classifications, "Industrial machines" and sometimes "Office supplies" the safety and CE requirements for the classes vary by a HUGE amount.

When a manufacturer claims a value on something, even when they give it away for free it changes the value of the package split for customs in the EU.

If I exported say

• Rocket Launcher $1,000
• Rocket for launcher $1,000
• Instructions for rocket launcher $1,000

Then sold the package for $2,000 customs will charge the VAT based on $3,000 not the $2,000 paid as that is the declared value on the export ticket.

EU customs can be really complex and a bit hit and miss to be honest...

On the LSO paperwork, the problem could easily be that companies and businesses here require an LSO to be appointed, it's a requirement of HSE regulations, offering paperwork as LSO training that actually isn't could easily put commercial ventures in hot water if an HSE inspector visits and wants to see the papertrail. I have two appointed LSO's here on staff and have to keep the paperwork for 7 years after any of them leave and make it available to authorised persons (ie: government) at any time just for the asking.

Regulatory controls and paperwork here for working with the use of lasers for commercial purposes is a nightmare, even for private use Lloyds (our biggest insurer) require that special insurance is taken out as lasers are considered a "Significant fire risk" so folks putting them in their kitchen etc may well find it invalidates their home insurance and Property use class.

If you have a 6,000 sqft house and use 500 sqft for the laser etc then that's likely going to be fine, you have a 1,200 sqft flat and use 500 sqft for the laser you will likely need a change of use registered with the local council and have to pay business rates if used for pecuniary advantage (gain)

Thank you Dave.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Thank you Dave.

Put it this way brother, I live in a country that part of (Scotland) requires a firearms license for a BB gun

[Nigel P. Jones]

If you thought a half inch out of alignment was bad...

This user experienced a "print" offsetting his design 7 inches for no apparent reason.

How can I trust that the machine will behave when I am using expensive materials?

Seems like maybe you can't.

Capture.JPG

[Lee DeRaud]

If you thought a half inch out of alignment was bad...

This user experienced a "print" offsetting his design 7 inches for no apparent reason.



Seems like maybe you can't.

Capture.JPG

"If you can't reproduce the problem, it isn't a problem." - Tech Support
(Of course that's pretty much how every tech support group works...)

[William Adams]

I would rephrase that as, "If you can't provide step-by-step instructions for reproducing a problem, it's difficult to help you with it."

There was a recent post on the Unofficial Shapeoko Facebook group where a person apologized for a bad review of two products written before the user had read and understood the manual.

The flip side of that for the Glowforge of course, is that they've promised an easy-to-use product, so arguably should be on the hook for problems which seem to be in their software.

[John Lifer]

Again, if it is out of alignment more than a stated amount which SHOULD be a machine/software specification, such as .005" or .01" and is totally reproducible as a STANDARD, then the machine and software is CR@P. My cheap Chinese machine hold tolerance as fine as I have wanted to measure, and is a darn sight closer than a half an inch or quarter inch (pick an astronomically large error). I would be TOTALLY irate if I put a piece of material in that thing that cost more than plywood and that thing moved 7 inches. Unacceptable by ANY measure.

[Mike Henry3424]

If you thought a half inch out of alignment was bad...

This user experienced a "print" offsetting his design 7 inches for no apparent reason.

The KA Kids have the answer - you just need to wait longer before pressing the GF button. It's interesting to see how quick those guys are to find fault with the user or the rest of the world. It is never a GF deficiency in their minds.