Glowforge release

[Matt McCoy]

This is NOT a SHIPMENT.
IT IS ONLY AN EMAIL SAYING IT WILL SHIP SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!![/COLOR]
And even it it were true, they still have thousands that they haven't shipped for over two years!!!!

Sorry, it looks like you're not comprehending what you are reading. You might want to take a look at my post again.

How many thousands haven't they shipped?
If you have that, please pass that info along, when you have a chance.

[Michael Henriksen]

What kind of warranty does one get on a Chinese direct import? How much to send back a crate to China for warranty repair? I believe these are rhetorical questions.

1-3 years depending on manufacturer. Less expensive to ship a machine from EU to China than to ship a machine from EU to US. Luckily the components in a Chinese laser are off-the-shelf parts that are readily available from a number of sources, so using someone local who would be able to swap out parts (if you can't do it yourself) would be possible. If GF want a viable export market I think they need to consider having local service reps.

[Steve Morris]

Talking about US warranty on a US product bought in the US - different thing to a Chinese import from a shonky factory or at least it should be.

As for EU countries, be interesting to see if they have met the CE tech specs and reporting requirements otherwise they will just be held by customs and sit in the dockyard. Also consumer protection law is very strong and supported here so could be some issues for GF in the future, having T&C that doesn't meet the regulations is not an acceptable excuse and will land you some considerable fines.

I'll get my popcorn

[Dave Sheldrake]

otherwise they will just be held by customs and sit in the dockyard

Because lasers are dual use, they don't get held in bulk..they just get crushed

[Kev Williams]

With all that's going on in the world lately, the "I WANT IT NOW!!!" mentality of today's society got brought up last night while chatting with my better half..

And I thought of this whole Glowforge situation... Regardless of all else surrounding the controversy, all the would-be GF owners have proven to me at least, that patience does still exist!

(me, I would've bailed on week 3)

[Scott Shepherd]

What kind of warranty does one get on a Chinese direct import? How much to send back a crate to China for warranty repair? I believe these are rhetorical questions.

What's a Chinese warranty have to do with anything? I wasn't speaking about Chinese machines, I was speaking about GF. If you spent $4,000 on a machine, plugged it in, turned it on, and it didn't work, would you spend another $1,000 to get it to work? I wouldn't. It would get a $500 one way trip back and a call to my credit card company reversing the charges. However, you might have in issue doing that, since the transaction went through 2 years ago.

But it's interesting that the bar is now at "That's how the Chinese do it". Chinese lasers aren't exactly the Gold Star of Customer Service that I'd like to be compared to.

[Jerome Stanek]

What kind of warranty does one get on a Chinese direct import? How much to send back a crate to China for warranty repair? I believe these are rhetorical questions.

I see that if there is a problem most of the better Chinese companies will ship out parts to repair the laser under warranty. Not ship it back to them even the tube they just want to see a picture of the tube smashed when they warranty it.

[Matt McCoy]

What's a Chinese warranty have to do with anything? I wasn't speaking about Chinese machines, I was speaking about GF. If you spent $4,000 on a machine, plugged it in, turned it on, and it didn't work, would you spend another $1,000 to get it to work? I wouldn't. It would get a $500 one way trip back and a call to my credit card company reversing the charges. However, you might have in issue doing that, since the transaction went through 2 years ago.

But it's interesting that the bar is now at "That's how the Chinese do it". Chinese lasers aren't exactly the Gold Star of Customer Service that I'd like to be compared to.

Simple answer. What are the options and service standards already available to someone in the market for a GF internationally? When considering similar pricepoints, features, warranty, service, design, Chinese machines are in the discussion and absolutely relevant to establish a baseline of expectation. I also believe most companies require one to wire money directly into their Chinese bank account. There is no recourse if the transaction goes sideways. That's too white knuckle for some people.

I see that if there is a problem most of the better Chinese companies will ship out parts to repair the laser under warranty. Not ship it back to them even the tube they just want to see a picture of the tube smashed when they warranty it.

The words "most" and "better" stick out to me. See Steve's post above: "Chinese lasers aren't exactly the Gold Star of Customer Service". Ultimately, you are on your own to source parts and install yourself. That is not a workable option for everyone.

[Michael Henriksen]

..... Ultimately, you are on your own to source parts and install yourself. That is not a workable option for everyone.

No, not really. There are a lot of Chinese machines out in the wild and apart from the size and badge, they are pretty near all identical inside. There are a lot of people who can troubleshoot them and swap parts for you if you are not capable of doing it yourself. The parts are also easy to source from a multitude of suppliers.

[Jerome Stanek]

The words "most" and "better" stick out to me. See Steve's post above: "Chinese lasers aren't exactly the Gold Star of Customer Service". Ultimately, you are on your own to source parts and install yourself. That is not a workable option for everyone.

At least you are not stuck with a brick if it breaks there are plenty of parts and people that can rebuild them without shipping them back. I remember when you couldn't repair certain computers because they had proprietary parts like the Glowforge but even they had service centers to do the repairs.

[Matt McCoy]

No, not really. There are a lot of Chinese machines out in the wild and apart from the size and badge, they are pretty near all identical inside. There are a lot of people who can troubleshoot them and swap parts for you if you are not capable of doing it yourself. The parts are also easy to source from a multitude of suppliers.

I think you're confused. I said:

"Ultimately, you are on your own to source parts and install yourself."

Your reply:

"There are a lot of people who can troubleshoot them and swap parts for you if you are not capable of doing it yourself. The parts are also easy to source from a multitude of suppliers."

You are agreeing with me. whether literally "yourself" or finding a 3rd party, by yourself, to fix a machine (under warranty) and source parts for you.

Either way, that's not what was being discussed.

At least you are not stuck with a brick if it breaks there are plenty of parts and people that can rebuild them without shipping them back. I remember when you couldn't repair certain computers because they had proprietary parts like the Glowforge but even they had service centers to do the repairs.

When you start off with "at least", you are moving to another discussion, instead of offering a counterpoint. We'll save the brick discussion for another day.

[Scott Shepherd]

Simple answer. What are the options and service standards already available to someone in the market for a GF internationally? When considering similar pricepoints, features, warranty, service, design, Chinese machines are in the discussion and absolutely relevant to establish a baseline of expectation. I also believe most companies require one to wire money directly into their Chinese bank account. There is no recourse if the transaction goes sideways. That's too white knuckle for some people.



The words "most" and "better" stick out to me. See Steve's post above: "Chinese lasers aren't exactly the Gold Star of Customer Service". Ultimately, you are on your own to source parts and install yourself. That is not a workable option for everyone.

Nope, Chinese machines are in the discussion because you keep bringing them up. I'm talking about GF and the GF policy. I'm not comparing GF's policy to anyone's. I'm simply saying that a GF customer brought up the question and the answer he/she got was that they (the customer) would be responsible for shipping back a machine should it not work upon arrival.

I'd be smoking hot if I opened my brand new, 2 year wait machine, plugged it in and it didn't work, and found out I had to spend $1,000 sending it back to take another shot at it. What happens then? If it stops working 2 months into the warranty. That's going to be one heck of an expensive machine to work on.

But since you're open to discussing other people's policies, the rest of the laser world simply ship parts the next day. Trotec, Universal, Epilog, Chinese lasers, none of them, make you send back your entire laser at your cost. That's an idiotic policy at best.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Lack of service availability has closed multiple western laser companies over the years. The number I have seen pop up, sell a load of machines then just fold when they can't meet support needs is astounding.

Hurricane Lasers
BIB Lasers
JustAddSharks
The Original Mr Beam
The Desktop Galvo lasers

Far more laser companies fail than succeed ....and some folks wonder why I never got into selling lasers ......

The cost of supporting machines in the wild far far outweighs the profits when you only have a limited product range.Thus far there are no laser companies in the world that only make one product and have been in business over 3 years other than Glowforge...lasers take a LOT of support. This is what will be glowforges downfall....the aftersales when new orders slow down or the new chinese versions hit the market in Mid April

[Matt McCoy]

Nope, Chinese machines are in the discussion because you keep bringing them up. I'm talking about GF and the GF policy. I'm not comparing GF's policy to anyone's. I'm simply saying that a GF customer brought up the question and the answer he/she got was that they (the customer) would be responsible for shipping back a machine should it not work upon arrival.

I'd be smoking hot if I opened my brand new, 2 year wait machine, plugged it in and it didn't work, and found out I had to spend $1,000 sending it back to take another shot at it. What happens then? If it stops working 2 months into the warranty. That's going to be one heck of an expensive machine to work on.

But since you're open to discussing other people's policies, the rest of the laser world simply ship parts the next day. Trotec, Universal, Epilog, Chinese lasers, none of them, make you send back your entire laser at your cost. That's an idiotic policy at best.

Chinese machines are in the discussion, because that is how you compare and contrast SOP for the industry. If you have nothing to compare to, then you have no basis for an opinion.

You're assuming that GF requires an owner making a warranty claim to send the machine back for repair (they don't). You're hitching your wagon to false info. GF will ship parts with instructions to make the warranty repair, just like the other companies you mentioned.

Just for grins:

GF Warranty

"For U.S. Customers only, Glowforge will pay shipping costs to return repair or replacement products.

Epilog Warranty

"All other costs for replacement or repair, including, but not limited to, packaging and shipping both to and from Epilog, shall be paid by the owner."

[Matt McCoy]

Lack of service availability has closed multiple western laser companies over the years. The number I have seen pop up, sell a load of machines then just fold when they can't meet support needs is astounding.

Hurricane Lasers
BIB Lasers
JustAddSharks
The Original Mr Beam
The Desktop Galvo lasers

Far more laser companies fail than succeed ....and some folks wonder why I never got into selling lasers ......

The cost of supporting machines in the wild far far outweighs the profits when you only have a limited product range.Thus far there are no laser companies in the world that only make one product and have been in business over 3 years other than Glowforge...lasers take a LOT of support. This is what will be glowforges downfall....the aftersales when new orders slow down or the new chinese versions hit the market in Mid April

I'm sorry -- flawed argument, in my opinion. "Lack of service availability" had nothing to do with the downfall of Hurricane Lasers, for instance, and no one on that list was close to the success or funding that GF has obtained. Besides, can't this be applied to Chinese lasers too?