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Thread: Glowforge release

  1. #1651
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    That terms of sale is quite a read! I wonder how many potential and current owners have actually read it. I did and there is no way I would accept those terms.

  2. #1652
    I believe you are not interpreting that correctly.
    I didn't, the lawyer I happen to have in yesterday on other work did.
    You did what !

  3. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    Do any of the big 3 or import machines have official support forums? I'm asking, because I don't know.
    As far as I know, ULS does not, but I consider that a feature rather than a bug because what they do have is factory-based web/email/phone tech support readily available, plus a network of very knowledgeable local distributors.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  4. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    That was a seperate debate. No one is saying that.
    Translation: "I accidently posted something that possibly refutes my previous post, so I'll just pretend I changed the subject."
    (Hint: you posted the purse in post #1636, you were still discussing CAD/CAM experience and the whole "one hour after delivery" thing in your previous post #1634.)

    Like it or not, that purse is about 90% design, 1% laser cut, and 9% manual assembly. If you really think the person who made that purse couldn't have done it just as easily with a ULS/Epilog/Trotec/Rabbit/whatever, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  5. #1655
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    This is misleading, at best.
    I believe you have me confused with someone at GF.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
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    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  6. #1656
    Worst bit the way I see it is a change of T&C AFTER a purchase has been made, that's not even close to legal in the EU hence why the caveat about "legal redress" was added for the non EU market.

    I have a FB group member publicly asking why she HAS to accept the new terms to be able to continue using her machine...
    You did what !

  7. #1657
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    That terms of sale is quite a read! I wonder how many potential and current owners have actually read it. I did and there is no way I would accept those terms.
    Where you considering a GF purchase?

    For context, the GF TOS are inline with any device with connectivity. Clear the rest of your weekend and get comfortable to read through any of the many overlapping legally-binding TOS for Apple products and services (there's not just one). Apple can discontinue any service to you, at any time, for any reason. Their terms can also change at any time, without notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake View Post
    I didn't, the lawyer I happen to have in yesterday on other work did.
    Lawyers can be wrong and some even lose cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    Translation: "I accidently posted something that possibly refutes my previous post, so I'll just pretend I changed the subject."
    (Hint: you posted the purse in post #1636, you were still discussing CAD/CAM experience and the whole "one hour after delivery" thing in your previous post #1634.)

    Like it or not, that purse is about 90% design, 1% laser cut, and 9% manual assembly. If you really think the person who made that purse couldn't have done it just as easily with a ULS/Epilog/Trotec/Rabbit/whatever, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
    Sorry Lee, you misunderstand. The purse project was posted as an example of cutting with suitable tolerances to make parts to fit and assemble with each other, not CAD/CAM experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake View Post
    Worst bit the way I see it is a change of T&C AFTER a purchase has been made, that's not even close to legal in the EU hence why the caveat about "legal redress" was added for the non EU market...
    Standard boiler-plate legalese.

  8. #1658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post


    Sorry Lee, you misunderstand. The purse project was posted as an example of cutting with suitable tolerances to make parts to fit and assemble with each other, not CAD/CAM experience.



    Standard boiler-plate legalese.
    Cutting the purse isn't the problem it is placing objects that need to be close to the edge or next to stuff already cut.

  9. #1659
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    Where you considering a GF purchase?

    For context, the GF TOS are inline with any device with connectivity. Clear the rest of your weekend and get comfortable to read through any of the many overlapping legally-binding TOS for Apple products and services (there's not just one). Apple can discontinue any service to you, at any time, for any reason. Their terms can also change at any time, without notice.

    Standard boiler-plate legalese.
    Of course not! Your reply gets at the heart of my objections to this ill conceived toy. If I buy a laser from some other company, I can keep using it even if the company goes under. I can even get parts from alternate sources. Not so with Glowforge. The terms of service specifically say they can cut me off, and render my laser cutter utterly useless, according to their own determination of what is right. That mile long defensive boilerplate is absolutely not typical for any other piece of equipment I own. Netflix is a subscription too. If they were to cut me off, there is always Amazon Prime or a hundred other alternatives. If Glowforge cuts me off or goes under, I am just out of luck.

    There is some guy trying to sell a Glowforge on this forum right now. For the sake of other members, I felt it necessary to ask him to quote the Glowforge policy in resale and secondary access to the server and software. Unfortunately, like most people, he didn't study the terms of service and didn't know. Potential buyers need to know the company position on this matter. It will definitely not improve his resale ability. That is Glowforge's fault.

    By the way, I refuse to buy anything Apple as well and for almost the same reason.

  10. #1660
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post

    "Can't get the machine to work" is an example of the problem here, especially if one really believes that.
    So then, does anyone know the approximate ratio of 'works correctly' to 'doesn't work correctly' Glowforges? I have no clue, but it does seem high...?

    In contrast, in my home to run my business I have 15 engraving machines of various types, most of them are well beyond their 'average service life; their combined ages is 295 years (316 if you add my old ULS my BIL still uses daily)-- All of them 'works correctly', and always have. In 42 years, 2 power supplies have been my only 'catastrophic' failures, and both of those incidents were rectified within hours.

    So, when it comes to machines working, my expectations are a little high
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  11. #1661
    Standard boiler-plate legalese.
    Not in the EU it isn't, such terms and conditions that attempt to remove or limit statutory rights are illegal hence why the GF EU T&C are different
    You did what !

  12. #1662
    Lawyers can be wrong and some even lose cases.
    So what you are saying Matt is you are correct in saying I am miss-reading the terms (not being a lawyer) compared to a 30 year time served and qualified lawyer who specialises in contract law?

    I'm sure you won't be offended if I take more notice of the $1,000 an hour lawyer
    You did what !

  13. #1663
    Matt you can'y come up with anything better them my thinking is set. gessh and look who has to answer a 100 post a day because they think the GF needs defending. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    You mention it in a way to insinuate that it's most, not some. This is misleading, at best.



    Yes, I know. You misunderstand, though. I am not an either/or type of person and you take my post as pro GF, but they are only attempts to disseminate accurate info or dispel speculation.

    Do any of the big 3 or import machines have official support forums? I'm asking, because I don't know.



    Perhaps you should read back a few posts. You will find what you seek. My opinion is that the "nonsense" is repeating incorrect info.



    That was a seperate debate. No one is saying that.



    I have you down for one "crushed" vote, as I recall. Also, that GF will not be able to be imported into the UK, I believe.



    I believe you are not interpreting that correctly.



    Bert: Your are probably set in your thinking and not able to see otherwise.



    "Can't get the machine to work" is an example of the problem here, especially if one really believes that.
    If the Help and advice you received here was of any VALUE to you PLEASE! Become a Contributor
    Rabbit RL_XX_6040-60 watt Laser engraving/cutting machine Oh wait its a 3D Printer my bad LOL
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  14. Hah I had not heard this one before.

    https://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2018...-laser-cutter/

    After that first successful project, we left the Glowforge in the garage for a few days, distracted by the rush of the holidays. The temperature fell. The next time I went to use it, I received an error message: The unit was too cold. We moved it to a warmer location inside my neighbors’ house. It took two full weeks before the Glowforge was ready to work again. I’m not sure if this was a sensor fault that just took some time to reset, or if it was really that slow to warm back up.

  15. #1665
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel P. Jones View Post
    Hah I had not heard this one before.

    https://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2018...-laser-cutter/
    This, and other reports/posts I have read about the GF makes it sound almost as if lasers didn't exist before GF.

    I found this amusing: "when a clearly pained Glowforge co-founder and CEO Dan Shapiro announced a second delay in the production schedule because of quality concerns: “I’d rather wait for a laser cutter that works well than have a crumby one today.”"
    Considering the software is still in development I guess he changed his mind on that, pain or no pain.
    G. Weike LG900N 100W RECI RDWorks V8
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