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Thread: Glowforge release

  1. #1426
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    [QUOTE=Matt McCoy;2759459]

    ~2 weeks, with some received in about 8 days.

    How many is "a lot" and it looks like UPS shipping damage, in what I've seen.


    They may be damaged in shipping but still need to go back. Leaking coolant, scratched lens, not able to connect to wifi not able to calibrate how many things need to be wrong. and 1/4 inch off is good enough

  2. #1427
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Stanek View Post
    They may be damaged in shipping but still need to go back.
    In the latest update, it is mentioned (if I recall correctly) that the total units returned amounted to 2 production days. Quick and dirty math would be about ~7% of shipped units (this could be wildly off). In a study I've read, UPS (the carrier GF uses) has casualties of about 11%, USPS: 10%, and FedEx: 7%. So, do you still stand behind your statement of "a lot"? What are you comparing to?

    Also, it seems they acknowledged that their packing materials needed refinement and have done so. As you mentioned, they ship replacements pretty quickly.

    ...1/4 inch off is good enough
    Not doubting you, but would like to see where GF has stated that a 1/4" tolerance is "good enough".

    Thank you.

  3. #1428
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    I have read several times where they state that the unit is working properly if it is with in 1/4 inch of where it should print most of those threads are closed

  4. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post
    In a study I've read, UPS (the carrier GF uses) has casualties of about 11%, USPS: 10%, and FedEx: 7%.
    Got a link to that study?

    Unless "casualties" includes things like delivering a day later than quoted or cosmetic damage to the shipping box, those numbers sound insanely high.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
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  5. #1430
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    Got a link to that study?

    Unless "casualties" includes things like delivering a day later than quoted or cosmetic damage to the shipping box, those numbers sound insanely high.
    I agree Lee, I've shipped over 60,000 packages with UPS this financial year and thus far have had 5 that were damaged beyond service, 3 that required repair and 1 that vanished totally.

    If the guesstimate of 7% of GF's shipped arrive damaged is correct then that's a HUGE problem, at 0.7% I would be getting very worried, at 1% I would be changing my packaging and delivery service entirely.

    Glass DC laser tubes, especially those prefilled with liquid was NEVER a good idea to begin with, many vendors here won't use any postal service for tubes other than their own vehicles due to the risk of damage. DC tubes break for fun unless you pack them in nuclear fuel container like packaging.
    You did what !

  6. #1431
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Stanek View Post
    I have read several times where they state that the unit is working properly if it is with in 1/4 inch of where it should print most of those threads are closed
    Again, I don't doubt you -- just would like to see those words, and then form an opinion.

    Closed threads are still readable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    Got a link to that study?

    Unless "casualties" includes things like delivering a day later than quoted or cosmetic damage to the shipping box, those numbers sound insanely high.
    https://consumerist.com/2013/11/22/y...oliday-season/

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake View Post
    I agree Lee, I've shipped over 60,000 packages with UPS this financial year and thus far have had 5 that were damaged beyond service, 3 that required repair and 1 that vanished totally.

    If the guesstimate of 7% of GF's shipped arrive damaged is correct then that's a HUGE problem, at 0.7% I would be getting very worried, at 1% I would be changing my packaging and delivery service entirely.

    Glass DC laser tubes, especially those prefilled with liquid was NEVER a good idea to begin with, many vendors here won't use any postal service for tubes other than their own vehicles due to the risk of damage. DC tubes break for fun unless you pack them in nuclear fuel container like packaging.
    Seems anecdotal and not a very good comparison, unless you are a start-up shipping large, heavy boxes of breakable lasers for the first time. Fun fact: The U.S. has 11 states that are larger than the entire U.K. (England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.) So, when you say "here", the distances packages travel over there might not be a good barometer of what to expect in the U.S.

    Also, you mention:

    "many vendors here won't use any postal service for tubes other than their own vehicles due to the risk of damage. DC tubes break for fun unless you pack them in nuclear fuel container."
    This reads as if you would expect a high number of damaged packages with such dramatic words and maybe higher than what you quote above.

  7. #1432
    the distances packages travel over there might not be a good barometer of what to expect in the U.S.
    To 57 different countries, including Australia, New Zealand, The USA, Hong Kong, China and The Russian Federation. so considerably further than GF have yet shipped any of their lasers. Many of the items much larger, more fragile than lasers or laser tubes and considerably more expensive.

    This reads as if you would expect a high number of damaged packages with such dramatic words and maybe higher than what you quote above.
    Simply because most sensible folks who work with or sell lasers realise that sending them out filled is plain stupid at best and even when empty likely to end badly at worst.

    Here are some "end user experiences"

    Seriously considering returning my GF after they replaced my first unit and second unit has misaligned gantry. What are the viable alternatives? I don’t mind paying more, but I want something that isn’t going to fall apart.
    My glowforge has been calibrating for about 15 minutes. I've rebooted 2 times. Anyone else have this problem?
    Can anyone here help with a alignment issue? I calibrate the machine no problem, upload my art no problem, and then it shifts the image slightly to the right when it starts to lasering. It looks fine in the preview, and then once it cuts it shows the cut line to be shifted. Help?
    any idea why the engrave looks funky in the glowforge app?
    I received an email from Glowforge with a password to the training manual but it was only a 20 page Laser safety manual. Did others get their $1K in training as the email said?
    Until tonight I have only put 1-2 smaller things on the glowforge, and tonight I have uploaded several files, some larger with engraving. With multiple files, how long should you expect the "preparing your design" step to take, it's been about 5 minutes and its still not finished. Is this normal, or is there anything I should do differently?
    Have any non US folks received their Glowforge yet?Mine isn’t due to be ‘shipped’ until the end of Feb. Despite ordering in the first two days and being told that international shipments would start in October.
    I would have cancelled, but there really is no quality alternative for the price i paid - even with the ludicrous $750 shipping i have to pay!
    We got my Glowforge about a week ago and we are running into a snag. We are trying to engrave a something that is 8x8. We can preview it but when we tell it to print it gives an error after about 5 minutes. Has anyone else run it to this or know how to get around it? Thanks in advance for your help.
    How much time take to connect? It's taking so long I'm worried
    Just a selection from Decembers posts from people who actually HAVE their machines
    You did what !

  8. #1433
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    "The not-as-bad news is that only 16 (5%) of the damaged packages contained products that were also damaged. So that’s about .5% of all the products ordered during those nine months."

    Like I said: those initial numbers are for "some sort of damage", overwhelmingly to the outer packaging. Of course, if you need that outer packaging to make a return, even under warranty, that qualifies as Bad News.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  9. #1434
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake View Post
    To 57 different countries, including Australia, New Zealand, The USA, Hong Kong, China and The Russian Federation. so considerably further than GF have yet shipped any of their lasers. Many of the items much larger, more fragile than lasers or laser tubes and considerably more expensive.
    Dave, I may not be following correctly. I apologize, if I am not. You posit an anecdote about sending packages with UPS with amazing success, then follow with how vendors there won't use ANY postal service, and instead elect to use their own delivery vehicles, for fear of damaged packages (maybe even to China and Russia?) I'm not sure of your point, but the discussion was that "a lot" of GF's shipments were arriving damaged. There's a tendency in this thread to offer conjecture and dramatic hyperbole, that usually doesn't pan out, so maybe some context is needed here.

    Your follow-up states that you ship larger, more fragile, and considerably more expensive items than lasers (via UPS), then critique GF for using UPS to send smaller, lighter, and less expensive packages. Do I have that right?

    I'm not sure pasting anecdotes proves anything, other than to confirm a bias against GF. This is out of how many sold? How many of those were resolved or user error? GF owners are all newbies and rubes, right? () How many troubleshooting threads will you find on SMC (or any other dozen or so forums) about every other laser made?

    You made a claim to know how to easily fix the camera alignment issue. Why not reach out to offer your professional services to correct the problem and help all the GF backers you claim to look out for? Perhaps you could also consult on package design to ensure safe delivery of everyone's laser.

  10. #1435
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    Why should he reach out to help a company that he may be competing against at some point.

  11. #1436
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    If you read carefully Dave says...> Glass DC laser tubes, especially those prefilled with liquid was NEVER a good idea to begin with, many vendors here won't use any postal service for tubes other than their own vehicles due to the risk of damage. DC tubes break for fun unless you pack them in nuclear fuel container like packaging.

    He is only talking about glass tubes.

    And why should he or anyone else step in to fix a design problem that has been there since day one. GF mistake, not having any experience with real world laser / engraver design and especially at that low price point.

    Does your own laser do +/- .250 of an inch or would you expect more after waiting over a year for your GF?
    Last edited by Bill George; 12-30-2017 at 12:09 PM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  12. #1437
    Why not reach out to offer your professional services to correct the problem and help all the GF backers you claim to look out for?
    Predominantly time, or the lack of it sadly Matt, I also have seen nothing that suggests GF are prone to listen to anybody no matter what their level of experience given that YongLi warned GF on more than a few occasions about their HT PSU design and yet GF still went ahead anyways. And that's from their own tube supplier who has been making DC tubes for the last 12 years in massive volumes yet were ignored.

    So while I have a great deal of sympathy for end users I'm also not prepared to have my reputation with other companies damaged by getting involved with people who choose not to listen.
    You did what !

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Matt McCoy View Post

    How many is "a lot" and it looks like UPS shipping damage, in what I've seen.

    Fair enough. It looks like we're on the same page. If you get a sec, take a looksie through their forum. I don't get the impression that GF backers, in general, are naive or make uninformed decisions.

    They've walked that one back a little, I think. There's been a formal request for the firmware, which I believe they will have to release, due to the GPL and since the GF runs Linux. Dan has posted that they are working on it.
    I look through the GF forum regularly and often find people with naive expectations. For example, the folks that used their CCs as a bank to borrow money to pay for the GF upfront and ended up paying huge interest fees while waiting 2 years for the product. Most of them planned to pay off the GF with sales of GF products with no real idea of the market or what sort of profit margin they could expect.

    On the firmware promise, Dan's statements stopped having any credibility a long time ago. Which statement should one believe - the one a couple years ago where he promised to release the firmware when shipping started or the one now where he says that they are working on it?

    Also, it seems to me that GF or its fan base is all too eager to blame either UPS or their legendary Friendly Neighborhood Lawyers for many of the complaints or problems.

    Sorry for not quoting better.

  14. #1439
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Stanek View Post
    Why should he reach out to help a company that he may be competing against at some point.
    I don't know Dave's business(es) or really think it matters. If he is a competitor, it might be a problem to criticize GF on public, 3rd-party forums, though. For the record, I think Dave is a stand-up guy and would not do that, if he were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill George View Post
    If you read carefully Dave says...> Glass DC laser tubes, especially those prefilled with liquid was NEVER a good idea to begin with, many vendors here won't use any postal service for tubes other than their own vehicles due to the risk of damage. DC tubes break for fun unless you pack them in nuclear fuel container like packaging.

    He is only talking about glass tubes.

    And why should he or anyone else step in to fix a design problem that has been there since day one. GF mistake, not having any experience with real world laser / engraver design and especially at that low price point.

    Does your own laser do +/- .250 of an inch or would you expect more after waiting over a year for your GF?
    GF uses glass tubes, so the comparison can be made fairly. If we're doing anecdotal evidence, I have taken delivery of 3 lasers with glass tubed installed, and another with it packed separately. I've also received several glass tubes from China, with no problem.

    Our dirty math would (possibly) indicate that 93% of all GF lasers shipped arrive OK. Most are working fine and owners are really enjoying them.

    If Dave has the quick and easy fix, then why not? Compensation, glory, and the satisfaction of helping naive GF backers awaits.

    Jerome can't seem to find where GF has stated that a 1/4" tolerance is acceptable. I'm still interested, if you know where to find that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake View Post
    Predominantly time, or the lack of it sadly Matt, I also have seen nothing that suggests GF are prone to listen to anybody no matter what their level of experience given that YongLi warned GF on more than a few occasions about their HT PSU design and yet GF still went ahead anyways. And that's from their own tube supplier who has been making DC tubes for the last 12 years in massive volumes yet were ignored.

    So while I have a great deal of sympathy for end users I'm also not prepared to have my reputation with other companies damaged by getting involved with people who choose not to listen.
    Oh, I don't know about that. They've brought on consultants with the proper chops and have some really interesting folks working with them. Maybe take a look, when you get a chance. You may or may not be impressed.

    I have't seen any issues with the PSU you mention, other than they had to redesign, which was one of the shipping delays.

  15. #1440
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henry3424 View Post
    I look through the GF forum regularly and often find people with naive expectations. For example, the folks that used their CCs as a bank to borrow money to pay for the GF upfront and ended up paying huge interest fees while waiting 2 years for the product. Most of them planned to pay off the GF with sales of GF products with no real idea of the market or what sort of profit margin they could expect.

    On the firmware promise, Dan's statements stopped having any credibility a long time ago. Which statement should one believe - the one a couple years ago where he promised to release the firmware when shipping started or the one now where he says that they are working on it?

    Also, it seems to me that GF or its fan base is all too eager to blame either UPS or their legendary Friendly Neighborhood Lawyers for many of the complaints or problems.

    Sorry for not quoting better.
    Naiveté or optimism, Perhaps. No doubt there are the former, but I don't get the impression that they are the largest segment and there's no way GF can exclude groups or dictate how their machines are to be used.

    As I said, they've walked back statements on the firmware, but will be required to release it at some point. You've probably already seen the formal request thread, which I understand is SOP for such matters.

    Sorry, I'm not in-the-loop enough to follow your comment on UPS and lawyers.

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