another jointer/planer thread. sorry

[Richard Shaefer]

I just got a fairly significant promotion at work (yay, me) and I've been mulling a jointer/planer combo for some time.
We can argue combos vs. separates, but I just don't have the real estate for a big jointer and a big planer, so end of story.
I was originally considering 3 models:

Jet JJP-12
Grizzly GO634-XP
Hammer A3-26 (10" model - the 31 is out of budget)

The features I really want are:
I want to be able to push it up against the wall. Only the Grizzly and the Hammer do that.
I want a euro blade guard. Only the Jet and the Hammer do that.
I want a helical head or at least the ability to upgrade later. The Jet and Grizzly already come with helical heads, the Hammer does not and the machine is not up-gradable unless you buy it that way, and the cost premium for that is like $800.

All models are *about* the same price. The Hammer costs more, but I can pick it up in Delaware where there's no sales tax, so it tightens the race.

For some reason, Grizzly stopped making the GO-634XP, so that one seems to be off the table. The replacement GO634 has nothing I want except for the spiral cutterhead

The Jet JJP12 has the euro guard, a downright crappy looking fence design and I could in theory upgrade to a spiral head to a later date, if I wanted to

the Hammer has the euro guard and the tight fence design I want. The Felder rep flat out told me that the heads are not interchangeable, so no upgrades available from them, even though Byrd does make a Sheliz head for a rather princely $800+ I suppose I could do later. It's also the smallest table at 10", but it's a hell of a brand name behind the machine.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Hammer, but I'm open to counterpoints or options I didn't consider.

thanks!

[Peter Quinn]

You can get the hammer.....or get one of the others and spend lots of time wishing you had gotten the hammer. With the right casters, these things are highly mobile, so the wall is not insurmountable in my mind. For me the 10" planer is a restriction I could not suffer, I'd save up an get the bigger one. This is a life time investment, I've planed a lot of boards wider than 10" in my life....

[Peter Kelly]

There's a few threads on here regarding the Jet, reviews were somewhat less than stellar. Essentially "works ok enough but not worth the money WMH charges for it".

The MiniMax J/Ps all ship with OSHA compliant pork chop guards, the euro style ones can be ordered from SCMI via Parts Pronto.

I'd also note that the Hammer machines can take a few months for delivery from the time of order. I don't believe they stock too much in the way of machinery at the showroom in Delaware.

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

Richard, can't say anything about Grizzly, but I did use JJP12 with regular knife for a 4 years and now I have Felder combination machine with Silent head JP.
First - whatever machine you will choose - go for helical head from the beginning. Very quite, you can talk while working. Good planed surface.
I like JJP12 a lot, good quality, good performance machine, never have a problem. Sell it only when I got combination machine.
Felder, at least when I visited Felder in Delaware, looks more substantial than Hammer by weight, sturdiness. More meat under the table. But I would not buy 10" planer if I have an option to buy 12".

Ed.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a 12 inch jointer with knives I use the the front 6inches mostly.When they knives start showing lines I use the second half toward the back.Then I use the whole knive and skew the material.
Its like buying a bag of your favorite potato chips then eating half a bag then saving the other half for later.Or you can eat the whole thing at once and get a belly ache.😆

[Peter Kelly]

There's currently a 2004 16" Hammer J/P on Philadelphia CL. Seller is asking $2,700.00 but the ad has been up for many months so they might be willing to move on it.

Not much up I-95 from the Felder showroom in Delaware. 3 phase machine so you'd need either a VFD or phase converter.

[John TenEyck]

I had a 10" Inca J/P for 25 years. Great, compact machine and we built a lot of stuff together. I now have a 14" Mini Max. It's a world apart. I paid less a lot less for it than any of the J/P's you are considering. A spiral head may be nice, but you can't add more width except by buying a wider machine. If you don't plan to use a lot of figured wood straight knives work just fine, and it's easier to joint wood on a straight knife machine from what I'm told. You have to know what your needs are. If the 10" Felder meets your needs, buy it. It's built to far higher standard than either of the others. I don't know, but if the Hammer 12" is in the same price range as the 10" Felder, I'd buy it. It's still a far nicer machine than either of the other two. Seriously think about your need for a spiral head. The 12" Hammer Tersa head is not much higher priced than the new ones you're looking at. But all things considered, I'd be looking for 12" or wider used machine. They are out there, and if you can find a Mini Max, Hammer, Felder, etc. top end machine it will be a great machine for many more years, especially if it was owned by a hobbiest or one man shop. You'll likely pay no more than 50% of a comparable new machine.

John

[Richard Shaefer]

There's currently a 2004 16" Hammer J/P on Philadelphia CL. Seller is asking $2,700.00 but the ad has been up for many months so they might be willing to move on it.

Not much up I-95 from the Felder showroom in Delaware. 3 phase machine so you'd need either a VFD or phase converter.

Good find. I dropped the guy an email. Will let you know how that works out. Rather not deal with a few hundred more dollars on a VFD, but we'll see

[Bill Adamsen]

Richard:

One can get a retrofit Byrd or other head for most jointer/planers that were made in any quantity. Pricey, but available. 16" (410mm) is a very useful size for the JP. A 16" jointer table is quite heavy, meaning the whole machine would be heavy and if mobile, not without effort. Patience will pay off as used machines of this ilk do come on the market. To your point, most will likely be 3-phase.

[John TenEyck]

Yes, they are out there: http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-FS35-Mini-Max-Combination-Planer-Joiner-with-Shop-Fox-Mobile-Base-/221965364872?hash=item33ae2aae88:gRoAAOSwnipWafG-

John

[Curt Harms]

The Jet JJP-12 fence looks funky but it works okay. If I tilt the fence - which is rare - I check with a known good square when resetting and don't rely in the crude stop mechanism. At the time I bought mine the Euro machines were about 2X the price and WAY over of my budget. I checked into the Byrd head - it'd run $1000+. You could get a Jet helical cutterhead for around $600. The JJP-12HH also feeds at 12 ft./min, the straight knife version feeds at 20 ft./min. I'm a very light user but have had no maintenance issues except for having to replace a start capacitor. I got mine when they were first available in the U.S. - they'd been available in Europe as a different model no. for some years prior to being available here. I get flat square stock off the machine which is what I bought it for. I buy rough sawn stock so wanted the 12" jointer.

[Lewis Justis]

I bought the Jet JP12HH a little over a year ago, and have not regretted it. The 12" jointer capability took my work to a whole new level. The changeover between jointer and planer is quick and easy, and the helical head is a really nice upgrade. I spent several hours with a precision straightedge, feeler gauges, and a Starrett square tuning in the tables and fence when i bought it (new) and everthing is still good. The total required distance out from the wall is around 28". I will admit that the euro- gaurd takes some getting used to, and I'm still not a big fan. Like I said, I haven't regretted the purchase and I don't miss the 8" Powermatic 64B jointer or 15" Delta DC380 planer that I sold. I would not consider buying a 10" jointer/planer. Good luck in your search.

[Silas Smith]

Another happy owner of the jet. The space savings from my DJ-20 and planer is noticible in my 500 ft shop. I actually prefer the shorter beds as I've never had a problem. If you can joint a 8' board with a 22" hand plane, a 60" bed is more than adequate. I have the helical head and picked it over the grizzly because of the significantly higher number of cutters and the fence on the Grizzly hasn't recieved the best reviews as well.

I agree that the fence is adequate, not spectacular, but it holds it's settings and how many times do you really take it off 90º? The helical head is the bomb! In my opinion, I would only go with a tersa or helical head. Not having to remember grain direction and the inevitable tearout that comes with straight knives make milling such a better experience.

I waited until jet was offering 15% off and then ordered from a free shipping and no state tax site so my total cost was $2900 delivered to my garage. It was a little more than the Grizzly, but about $1000 cheaper than the comparable Hammer and $2000 less than the Felder.

It will probably require a little more setup and adjustment if you go with the Jet or Grizzly, but I could spend alot of adjustment time to justify the additional cost. The problem with tool advise is most people only have one reference point and also want to justify their decision. Take this recommendation with a grain of salt. My experience with the Jet is a good one, but there are several who haven't had the same experience.

Congrats on the promotion and soon to be tool addition in the shop!

[Art Mann]

Just keep in mind that they are not out there in every geographic location. I have been watching Craigslist for close to 10 years and I have yet to see a used jointer/planer for sale within 100 miles. Some people must buy new because that is their only alternative.

Yes, they are out there: http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-FS35-Mini-Max-Combination-Planer-Joiner-with-Shop-Fox-Mobile-Base-/221965364872?hash=item33ae2aae88:gRoAAOSwnipWafG-

John

[John TenEyck]

Just keep in mind that they are not out there in every geographic location. I have been watching Craigslist for close to 10 years and I have yet to see a used jointer/planer for sale within 100 miles. Some people must buy new because that is their only alternative.

You have to be willing to look further than 100 miles if you want to find a specific machine. I considered myself lucky to find the Mini Max I bought only 300 miles away. The price was so low compared to a new one that the $200 in gas and trailer rental to go get it still made a great deal - like 40% of the cost of a comparable new machine. Prior to finding that one I talked with a guy in MN about his machine. The cost to ship it to the Niagara Falls area, which I think is about 1000 miles, was about $400 - still not a deal breaker.

Anyone can buy a new machine if you have the money. It takes a little more work to find a good used one but to me the cost savings makes it well worth the effort. And keep in mind, you often get a bunch of extras thrown in for free or pennies on the dollar. I got a mobile base, knife setting jig, a complete set of wrenches, extra knives, extra belt, extra capacitor, and some other stuff I can't remember. At about 40% of the price of a comparable new machine. The machine looks new and required no repairs, nor any alignment work. Nearly 30 years old and the alignment is still perfect. I hear people talking about having to adjust a new machine to get it into alignment. It makes a lot more sense to me to buy a machine that was designed and built so that it would be in alignment when it was put together. Of the three machines the OP listed, I'll bet the Felder stands head and shoulders above the others in that regard.

John