Ideal angle for top of tool rest

[Brice Rogers]

I am wondering what the ideal angle is for the top of a tool rest.

I have got used to using a bowl gouge and a roughing gouge at about a 45 degree angle upwards to doing a shearing or slicing cut. I tried using a tool rest with about a 30 degree angle and found that the angle was too shallow. I found that I angled the tool upwards and the tool was resting on the side of the tool rest furthest from the wood. So, in other words, I had a lot of tool hanging out there. That caused instability and tended to dig in.

I suspect that a 30 degree angle (with respect to the horizontal) would be fine for scraping or maybe skew shearing, but that it is the wrong angle for use with a bowl or roughing gouge.

I'm thinking that a better angle might be around 50 degrees (from horizontal). That would kind of guarantee that the tool would be supported close to what I'm shearing/cutting.

What do you experts think or advise ? Is a 30 degree tool rest a poor choice?

[Thom Sturgill]

I greatly prefer the Robust design, with the small rod over a curved rest, over other rests. The angle the tool makes to the cut depends entirely on the tool, its grind, and the cut in question. A sheer scrape requires a greater angle than a push cut. The angle of the bevel determines, in part, the horizontal angle the tool needs to be at, so a 45 degree bevel will require a greater angle than a 60 degree bevel. Tighter angles on the gouge bevel yield longer bevels unless ground back with a rounded heel or a micro-bevel. This combination af factors can create a 'sweet-spot' where turning works best FOR YOU. Many pros use 45 degree bevel. I prefer 50-55 degree and grind back the heel. David Ellsworth teaches a 60 degree bevel.

Roughing gouges bevels depend an the woods being cut. Different bevel for soft wood like pine than for hard woods like rock maple. Since the tool is held square to the lathe, the bevel angle determines the tool angle with respect to the horizontal. Remember you want to cut at just above the centerline - this determines the rest height.

Also, the larger the diameter of a round rest, the further from the wood you will find the tool.

[Dale Bonertz]

Thom gave you some good answers. I don't care for the Robust tool rest at all. The bottom of the rest gets in the way on some cuts. I think that is why they came out with the narrow model. I would much prefer the Sinner tool rests due to there slimmer design and they are very sturdy. Problem with them are they don't make them in 30mm posts which I need for my lathe. So I use the rests that came with my lathe and have become used to them.

You are learning that there is more than two angles in presenting the tool to the work. Shear scraping is always said to be 45 degree and closed face. True but when closing the face there is an angle of the cutting edges off of the piece, 45 degree angle of tool presentation (say north and south) and then there is the angle of (east and west). If you imagine putting the gouge on the end of the wing and then lift the handle until it goes to the nose of the wing that is what I mean by east and west. That east and west angle can be determined by the tool rest and how far out the bottom of it sticks out. This where I don't like the robust rest. The bottom where it meets the tool post sticks out to far for my liking. Is there a perfect angle like your after? I can't say because we all have different turning styles. But I think in this case the less they get in the way the better because it opens more tool presentation opportunities to the turner.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I don't like the round bar type tool rests, most of which seem to be in the 1 inch or so diameter range. As you drop the handle, your support point gets farther away from the wood. I also don't like the flat topped ones like my old PM had because it does limit how far you can drop the handle. I do like the Robust rests for the small piece of drill rod on top. It is smooth as glass when you are using it, and being small in diameter, as you drop the handle, your support point pretty much stays in place. All of that being said, most of the time with my gouges, I hold the handles more level, and push cut, so I use the nose more than the wings. For shear scraping, both inside and outside, I use scrapers. I have swept back ones (also called inside scrapers) for the outside, and ) nose shapes for the inside, which is really handy since you can't drop the handle since the bowl rim, tool rest, and lathe bed can be in the way. The more round or swept back the nose shape is, the more you need to drop the handle. The flatter the nose shape is, the less you need to drop the handle. I haven't seen the Sinner rests, or used them.

robo hippy

[Geoff Whaling]

Brice, I fear you will get just as many differing opinions & responses on tool rests as we see on "which is the best tool" or best profile / tool angle etc.

The angle of the top is only one aspect of tool rest design. The angle of the back, height above the collar (as new Grizzly owners have found recently), offset from the tool post shaft etc. all influence tool presentation, support, control & ultimately the turners ability to produce successful outcomes. I suspect many turners who struggle with tool control are really experiencing tool post issues, i.e. tool post vibration, as well.

A while back I did a two day demo with a couple of other demonstrators at another club with my own lathe a Vicmarc VL150. I forgot to pack my favourite 6" & 12" Woodfast tool rests and had to use the standard 6" Vicmarc tool rest. It really brought home to me why I favour the Woodfast 6" tool rest so much for fine spindle turning. http://www.woodfast.com.au/index.php?p=1_8 I do a lot of small spindle work and use both over and under hand grips with skews etc. The design of the Woodfast allows me to bring the rest in close and to use the cove in the back (turners side) of the tool rest as a guide, while still being able to use the skew long point down to make deep Vee cuts with an underhand support grip. The near 45 degree back on the Vicmarc rest was hopeless in that particular application but I find it very good for bowl work. The Woodfast design excels in all areas for how I like to use tools and presentation angles.

The reasons I favour the original Woodfast tool rest design for small spindle work,

• the leading edge of the tool rest is offset well forward of the CL of the tool post permitting close positioning of the rest,
• cove on the back acts as a finger guide for skew planing cuts,
• the high quality cast iron acts as a vibration damper,
• the web or depth of the tool rest is sufficiently deep to prevent vibration but shallow enough to permit comfortable underhand grip and to permit left hand index finger support to delicate spindles when required.
• the top is soft enough to be easy to maintain as a true surface, but hard enough to resist typical wear damage.
• good ergonomic design.

We should not under estimate the value of good ergonomic design for tool posts.

[Brice Rogers]

Well, I don't like the round bar type tool rests, most of which seem to be in the 1 inch or so diameter range. As you drop the handle, your support point gets farther away from the wood. I also don't like the flat topped ones like my old PM had because it does limit how far you can drop the handle.

robo hippy

Thanks for this info. I was going to make a tool rest with a round bar. Based on your comment, I'll probably mill off the side that is closest to the work, so that it keeps the support point close to the wood.

On my new lathe, the angle of the rest is about 30 degrees (to the bed) so when I was making gouge shear cuts at an upward angle, my "fulcrum" was about an inch and a half from the tip of the tool. That is, the tool was resting on the side of the tool rest furthest from the wood. I found that to be horrible. I'm kind of surprised that the manufacturer would have made a rest like this. On some of their other lathes, they seem to have had a variety of angles, and most of them were better. Perhaps that part of the lathe was designed by someone who was not a wood turner or a wood turner that only used flat scrap cuts.

Thanks to all for your well thought out comments.

[Thomas Canfield]

I like the Robust style rest with the smaller rod on top of a curved structural support which provides for finger guard. I have a large 1 1/4"D bar that is 12" one side and 8" the other that I went back and added a piece of 1/8" plate under the bar to feel safer with my fingers. I also ground the end of the bar to taper to give better access to the bottom. I later had a "J" shape bar made with 1/4" top rod on bent 3/8" plate to get to inside of deeper 19"D bowls. Can't have too many toys.

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

(Quote) I would much prefer the Sinner tool rests due to there slimmer design and they are very sturdy. Problem with them are they don't make them in 30mm posts which I need for my lathe. So I use the rests that came with my lathe and have become used to them.

If you would call Steve I'm pretty sure he would custom make you a rest with a 30mm post. He does quite a bit of custom work.

[robert baccus]

Try grinding down slightly ( to flatten) on PM tool rests and gluing a hardened rod on the tip. The robust is glued and will break. Try J.B. weld for a strong glue joint.

[Dale Bonertz]

Joe,
Steve was at our symposium again this year. He didn't offer to make one when I spoke with him about it. That's fine since I am accustomed to mine. All tool rests work you just learn how to best utilize them. I do really like the Sinner rests though.

[Reed Gray]

The first Robust rests were epoxied. I had to go out to the shop to check. The newer ones have a few spot welds on them and epoxy for the rest of the area. I know it is tricky to weld the hardened drill rod on without it needing to be retempered.

robo hippy

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I prefer the Robust rest - got a bucketful of them; but the one I use most of the time is the low-profile style 9" Robust rest. It's the best of both worlds - hardened rod on top, but the skirt has been shortened so you can reach around it for an underhand grip. I also like the Hannes-designed Robust J rest - it's great for bowl interiors.
BTW - I looked at all 7 Robust rests I've got - the first two I bought weren't spot welded, but the other 5 are - I've seen no difference in performance and, even though they've been subjected to a few drops, everything remains in one piece.

[Brice Rogers]

(Quote) I would much prefer the Sinner tool rests due to there slimmer design and they are very sturdy. Problem with them are they don't make them in 30mm posts which I need for my lathe. So I use the rests that came with my lathe and have become used to them.

If you would call Steve I'm pretty sure he would custom make you a rest with a 30mm post. He does quite a bit of custom work.

Another approach if you have a metal lathe or a machinist friend: Make a 30 mm OD sleeve with a 1" opening. Or spend $16 and buy the adapter: http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/w...Vicmarc_V01015