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Thread: SETTING UP TABLE SAW: TS Aligner Jr, home made tools or other?

  1. #16
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    Maybe it's just because I'm a novice at this still, but why would you need a dial indicator to set up the table saw? I use an engineers square and a speed square to align mine and never had a problem with it.

    Also, the gauge looks quite nice. I prefer shop made tools over bought tools any day.

    Kyle

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Foster View Post
    Maybe it's just because I'm a novice at this still, but why would you need a dial indicator to set up the table saw? I use an engineers square and a speed square to align mine and never had a problem with it.

    Also, the gauge looks quite nice. I prefer shop made tools over bought tools any day.

    Kyle
    If its working for you, it works. Many saws will burn when cutting miters and this is generally related to poor alignment of fence or blade. In the case of a contractor saw, the design can pull thing out of alignment when tilting the blade and motor. Don't let me start an argument. There are of course high-end exceptions just as there are good and poor of any design. Any type of square is going to become awkward or require some accessories once things aren't on the planes it is made to measure. You can rig a brass screw in a hardwood carrier and adjust your tilted alignment. You can do this for 90 degrees as well. Sure its a little fussy but, once aligned a decent machine will stay aligned if not moved about too much. Its also an easy way to do a quick go, no-go check to see if you need to go further.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    If its working for you, it works. Many saws will burn when cutting miters and this is generally related to poor alignment of fence or blade. In the case of a contractor saw, the design can pull thing out of alignment when tilting the blade and motor. Don't let me start an argument. There are of course high-end exceptions just as there are good and poor of any design. Any type of square is going to become awkward or require some accessories once things aren't on the planes it is made to measure. You can rig a brass screw in a hardwood carrier and adjust your tilted alignment. You can do this for 90 degrees as well. Sure its a little fussy but, once aligned a decent machine will stay aligned if not moved about too much. Its also an easy way to do a quick go, no-go check to see if you need to go further.
    Thanks for the clarification. Now I will have to go and check my saw.

  4. #19
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    And as for me, I'm a ridiculously anal/analytical person. For me, when it comes to setting up equipment, if there is *any* room for improvement or a more accurate method, I want that. To me, it's a mental thing. If I have my miter aligned to the blade as close as .005, but I know if I just work with a it a little bit, I can get it closer - I will. The reason is because if I don't, every time I am using the saw, I'll be thinking "I really ought to align this the best I can". I'd consider it to be a major personality malfunction quite honestly.

  5. #20
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    I don't wish to confuse the sound advice already given but would add one thing.

    If the saw is part of a "combination machine" e.g. the Robland X31, then this alignment of the saw blade to the miter slot/slots remains critical, including when tilted, HOWEVER - it is only a small part of the over all set up of the machine & needs to be done in the right order.

    With such a machine... almost every adjustment affects some other function.

    So - as an example...adjusting the saw blade to the table miter slot - will alter the saw blade alignment to the sliding table. Thus, once the miter slot adjustment is completed - then the sliding table needs re - adjustment! The "rails" that the sliding table runs on are adjustable in 3 directions... and come set from the factory using special 'jigs'. they are a night mare to get right without after market micro adjusting attachments. Changing the blade adjustment to the miter slot - commits you to then adjusting the sliding table rails in 3 directions at each end - which just committed you to a world of hurt if you don;t have the right method and gear to do so.
    Not just that either.. the saw bench table top height is achieved from the planer infeed and out feed tables once they are aligned.

    So the point is, in a combination machine... should I alter the blade alignment pillow block settings, if it's already aligned to the sliding table but not so the miter slot.... which do i I use most often? Do I cut miters with the miter gauge and slot OR just put a wixey digital gauge on the tilting arbor blade and wind it over to my exact 45 degree cut & turn my stock up on edge to the fence on the sliding table, and cut the miter that way - avoiding using the miter slot?

    The Miter gauge has 1 degree adjustments... and anything beyond that, is a "test cut and best guess bye eye" proposition, the miter slot often isn't all that tight and wobbles a little as it travels giving a not very smooth cut off the saw blade... compared to the tilted arbor and sliding table/ fence method - when set with the magnetic Wixey gauge which will adjust to 0.1 of a degree.

    Some people just find "better ways" than using the miter slot and don't pay a lot of attention to whether it is 100% parallel to the blade... In an ideal world it would be nice if everything was 100% spot on but I find with used machines they seldom are once they have been moved and dis-assembled / re assembled by subsequent owners without benefit of manuals and set up guides or specific knowledge of the specific machine set up order procedure.

    So the caveat is if it's a combination machine and your going to alter a setting coz you read about it on the intranet, just be aware that almost every setting is interdependent of all other settings on the machine and doing just one (blade arbor) independent of all others and out of the right order - can then make many other settings no longer work as they once did - ergo sliding table (and fence) that runs of rails...

    Just thought I'd throw that in - having made the exact same error myself early on with a new (to me) X31 machine, and having to do weeks of research and re-adjusting / set up, following the correct order procedure to get it all back to "ticketty boo" on every function.

    Obviously a plane old standard stand alone contractors saw this likely won't be an issue - but I can just see someone with a combo - thinking to themselves... "I should do that to my saw" and not understand / realize the interdependence of every other function on the machine once you start altering factory settings.

    YMMV

    (Your mileage may vary).

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Moone View Post
    I don't wish to confuse the sound advice already given but would add one thing.

    If the saw is part of a "combination machine" e.g. the Robland X31, then this alignment of the saw blade to the miter slot/slots remains critical, including when tilted, HOWEVER - it is only a small part of the over all set up of the machine & needs to be done in the right order.

    With such a machine... almost every adjustment affects some other function.

    So - as an example...adjusting the saw blade to the table miter slot - will alter the saw blade alignment to the sliding table. Thus, once the miter slot adjustment is completed - then the sliding table needs re - adjustment! The "rails" that the sliding table runs on are adjustable in 3 directions... and come set from the factory using special 'jigs'. they are a night mare to get right without after market micro adjusting attachments. Changing the blade adjustment to the miter slot - commits you to then adjusting the sliding table rails in 3 directions at each end - which just committed you to a world of hurt if you don;t have the right method and gear to do so.
    Not just that either.. the saw bench table top height is achieved from the planer infeed and out feed tables once they are aligned.

    So the point is, in a combination machine... should I alter the blade alignment pillow block settings, if it's already aligned to the sliding table but not so the miter slot.... which do i I use most often? Do I cut miters with the miter gauge and slot OR just put a wixey digital gauge on the tilting arbor blade and wind it over to my exact 45 degree cut & turn my stock up on edge to the fence on the sliding table, and cut the miter that way - avoiding using the miter slot?

    The Miter gauge has 1 degree adjustments... and anything beyond that, is a "test cut and best guess bye eye" proposition, the miter slot often isn't all that tight and wobbles a little as it travels giving a not very smooth cut off the saw blade... compared to the tilted arbor and sliding table/ fence method - when set with the magnetic Wixey gauge which will adjust to 0.1 of a degree.

    Some people just find "better ways" than using the miter slot and don't pay a lot of attention to whether it is 100% parallel to the blade... In an ideal world it would be nice if everything was 100% spot on but I find with used machines they seldom are once they have been moved and dis-assembled / re assembled by subsequent owners without benefit of manuals and set up guides or specific knowledge of the specific machine set up order procedure.

    So the caveat is if it's a combination machine and your going to alter a setting coz you read about it on the intranet, just be aware that almost every setting is interdependent of all other settings on the machine and doing just one (blade arbor) independent of all others and out of the right order - can then make many other settings no longer work as they once did - ergo sliding table (and fence) that runs of rails...

    Just thought I'd throw that in - having made the exact same error myself early on with a new (to me) X31 machine, and having to do weeks of research and re-adjusting / set up, following the correct order procedure to get it all back to "ticketty boo" on every function.

    Obviously a plane old standard stand alone contractors saw this likely won't be an issue - but I can just see someone with a combo - thinking to themselves... "I should do that to my saw" and not understand / realize the interdependence of every other function on the machine once you start altering factory settings.

    YMMV

    (Your mileage may vary).


    Okay, my head hurts and I need to lay down now
    Life is a gift, not a guarantee.

  7. #22
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    May 2014
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    Here is one that I just made. I didn't feel like making it adjustable because I'm feeling lazy. It DID get the job done though.20151007_153828.jpg

    So here's a question: How can you cut a strip of wood for the miter slot if your saw is not aligned??? I had to finish my strip on the belt sander because it was it was coming out a bit crooked. Actually, now that I think of it, the fence and blade must be out.... because the miter slot would have had nothing to do with ripping a strip that was smaller at one end than the other.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Dowell View Post
    So here's a question: How can you cut a strip of wood for the miter slot if your saw is not aligned??? I had to finish my strip on the belt sander because it was it was coming out a bit crooked. Actually, now that I think of it, the fence and blade must be out.... because the miter slot would have had nothing to do with ripping a strip that was smaller at one end than the other.
    The miter bar is actually made shallow and thinner than the miter slot.

    TS Alignment Tool (1).jpg . TS Alignment Tool (2).jpg

    You then add screws to adjust the height so that the unit does not teeter-totter.

    TS Alignment Tool (4).jpg . TS Alignment Tool (3).jpg

    You add similar screws to adjust for a perfect miter slot fit.

    TS Alignment Tool (5).jpg . TS Alignment Tool (6).jpg

    I notice now that this unit is not made of ash. It is made out of that Chinese white wood that the furniture at Wal Mart is made out of ;-) You are correct about the blade to fence measurement. As discussed; align the blade to the slot that you use the most (many slots are not parallel and this is the left slot for me), then align your fence to the same slot.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 10-07-2015 at 8:38 PM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Orlando, FL
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    Mike, what you made is really all you need to align your saw. The only accuracy variable in your tool, is how tightly it fits the miter slot. As long as it's snug, that shouldn't be an issue.

    The one thing that can't be adjusted is the relationship of the miter slot to the table as a whole. It's necessary to match the saw blade to the miter slot as you show in your photo. Then, all you have to do is flip the tool around the make sure the rip fence aligns with the blade and miter slot. Some actually move the top end of the rip fence away from the blade a thousand or two. It supposedly helps keep the burn marks down on some woods prone to it like cherry. I've never noticed a problem with that so my rip fence is set up parallel with the blade.

    You probably saw that you can get an indication of how much run-out your arbor/blade has by turning the blade and watching to see how much the dial indicator deflects. When you set up your parallelism between the miter slot and blade, remember to use the same spot on the blade. I put a dot with a magic marker on the blade and measure at the rear of the blade and then rotate to measure the front using the same spot on the blade.

  10. #25
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    Bel Air, Maryland
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    Thanks James - totally understood. I didn't check the arbor runout but I will.

  11. #26
    Okay, a little late to the party, but the one book I'd highly recommend is John White's "Care and Repair of Shop Machines". Full of really practical techniques for tuning table saws, as well as most other common woodworking tools.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    houston tx
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    Or you can get one of these if you have a dial caliper. If not a caliper is more useful than an indicator and about the same price. I like it as much as anything else I've used.

    http://www.rockler.com/mag-dro-mitre-slot-base
    Last edited by mark kosse; 10-19-2015 at 9:11 PM.

  13. #28
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    Here's a setup I made several years ago ... ... IMG_0001.JPGIMG_0002.JPGIMG_0003.JPGIMG_0004.JPG

    The center bearing on the dial indicator base is spring-loaded, so it always maintains the same contact with the three bearings within the miter gauge slot.

    The plate is ground aluminum, and gives me a little more than double the resolution I could get by indicating off of the exposed portion of a blade's plate.

  14. #29
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    Check out the Betterley UNA-Gauge, itll help calibrate your table saw and pretty much every other tool in the shop as well. Well worth the money considering how many uses it has.
    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

  15. #30
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    Sep 2006
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    If you go to the Youtube website and query tablesaw tuning and similar topics, you will get hundreds of videos that clearly show how to tune a saw. Another source I ran across just recently is a video put out by Grizzly tools. Obviously, they are demonstrating how to tune their brand but the information is just as useful for other brands. In my own experience, a cheap Harbor Freight dial indicator, a precision square and a precision straight edge is all the specialty equipment needed. An adjustable square is also useful but you probably already own one of those. Those high dollar specialty kits will make the job a little more convenient but not more accurate. The job is easy enough without them.

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