Shaper --Learning Part 1

[Bob Vavricka]

I have used a shaper before to make raised panel doors with the parts all being hand fed and with different cutters than I have now. I recently acquired a used Delta 5hp shaper with a power feeder and raised panel cutters. I am posting this to document an experience using this set-up which may help other avoid my mishaps and perhaps get some constructive feedback.
I spent some time shimming the spindle to get it as close to vertical with the table as I think I was going to get it. With that done, I set up to run some sticking on stiles and bottom rails running the stock between the cutter and the fence to cut it to width while shaping the sticking. I only allowed about 1/16" to be removed in the operation. I set up the feeder and after several test cuts felt like I was ready to run the job. I was running around 150-200 running feet of stock and was down to two or three more to go when the stock feeder started to "walk back" slipping on the main vertical post. I was running against the rotation of the cutter (not climb cutting) and could see that the feeder had moved enough that the last 6-8 inches of the cut was not going to be fed past the cutter. So I got a good grip on the stock which was about 40" long and was able to keep it from kicking back, but not with out considerable damage to the piece. image1.jpeg
I have considered what I could have done differently and came up with two items to catalog away. While I tried to make sure all the adjustments were locked down, I think I will double check them after running a few pieces to make sure. Secondly as you will see in the pictures I posted below, I had the fence behind the spindle moved back and the fence boards off leaving a lot of room for stock to move into the spindle. The next time I run this job, I'll leave that fence on with it back far enough to not interfere with the cut, but close enough to limit how far the stock can move into the cutter. The stock feeder is rotated out of the way in the pictures, but I had it set with it skewed toward the fence by about 1/2 inch from the first roller to the last roller.
image2.jpegimage3.jpegimage4.jpeg
Let me know if you see things you would have done differently--I getting old, but not too old to learn from others.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

When conventional cutting, the cutter is always going to want to pull the workpiece into the cutter.
I think what you are attempting is unsafe and incorrect, and there's no way to guarantee you won't see the same results any time you attempt something like that.

[Mel Fulks]

Looks like you were "back fencing". Good for some wider things but not for what you are doing now,IMO. Removing 1/16th inch in that operation
is done by many of us. I like a shop made dedicated fence with an off set to accommodate the lost sixteeth.

[Bob Vavricka]

Looks like you were "back fencing". Good for some wider things but not for what you are doing now,IMO. Removing 1/16th inch in that operation
is done by many of us. I like a shop made dedicated fence with an off set to accommodate the lost sixteeth.

Mel,
Yes, I was "back fencing" I'm curious as to why you think it is not safe for this width of stock, but good for some wider things (How wide?) The shaper didn't come with a fence and I did make a fence arrangement with independently adjustable fences that I could set to take off say 1/16" and be supported on the outfeed side. I just liked the idea of cutting the stock to width while shaping the edge. I guess I think of the difference between the two ways as trying to take off 1/16" on a jointer as opposed to cutting it to width on a table saw. I appreciate your feedback and I am just trying to understand the issues. Thanks.

[Randy Henry]

I do what you are doing all the time. It's fine. Make sure the table is waxed really well, and that the tires on your feeder are clean. If you are not climb cutting, it shouldn't take that much effort. I also the feeder towards the direction of the cut just a little to keep the board against the fence.

[Mel Fulks]

Not saying that way won't work ,with a good grade of 'grabby' feeder tires it might work fine but with the stock tires I think the holding power might be compromised. Obviously more angle ,with all other things equal, just holds better. But the offset fence is a little harder to adjust. Some very competent guys here with different ways of doing all this stuff. Taking the sixteenth off with shaper gives, I think, a neater job with less tear out.

[J.R. Rutter]

The back fence like you used is quite common. Like Mel alluded to, you might consider a set of Western Roller belts and wheels, or at least a set of yellow or blue (not red) polyurethane replacement wheels from them. They grip better and are a little softer so you need less "suspension travel" on the feeder to control the wood. I use less than 1/2" of angle on the feeder - more like 1/4" difference front to back, but I also have a main fence with pressure bars to help control the stock. When I had a standard fence, I made some sprung strips (like a long anti-kickback strip) that clamped onto the fence to give some side pressure just in front of the cutter. As you already mentioned, you could also just move the main fence closer. You will capture more dust that way as well as being safer.

As far as the feeder stand goes, probably worth pulling the post out and degreasing it and the clamp base. I slip a short piece of pipe over the handle (1/2" metal conduit) to get a bit more leverage and avoid that walking.

[Kevin Jenness]

I don't see a problem with the basic operation or with the workpiece width. I like to use an outboard fence when reducing width as it is easier to avoid snipe than with a split fence. If your tires are not up to the job they should be replaced, in fact the usual stock wheels should generally be replaced with polyurethane wheels right off the bat. I think you are right to have the main fence closer to the cutting circle as a failsafe, but the problem here is the fact that the power feed rotated on the column or the column rotated in the base fixture or maybe the powerhead rotated in its yoke. You need to know how much torque to put on those lockdowns so that they don't move. I will probably get some flack for saying this but I customarily use a short cheater bar on the column to base lock and the arm to column lock. I have had those loosen up in use when tightened with only hand force on several different feeders, and as you found out it does not give a warm fuzzy feeling. I have a routine of horsing all the feeder and fence adjustments before starting up- really muckle onto the feeder and try to move it. I would be very leery of grabbing a piece of stock as you did- better to let it get chewed up than your fingers. I would try to hit the e-stop and get out of the way. Also, I don't angle the wheels more than about 1/4" on a four wheel feeder. I find more than that can be counterproductive.. For narrow pieces like sash bars the limited grip area for the feeder wheels can be assisted with spring boards attached to the main fence , forcing the stock to the outboard fence.

[Peter Quinn]

If the feeder moved you didn't have the feeder tight enough. Its not much more complicated than that. Could be old feeder wheels aren't as grabby as they should be if you got it used (but that would present itself on every piece not just the ones after you noticed the feeder position moved), could be some surface rust on the clamping mechanisms acting like a bit of a lubricant or resisting getting really tight. I keep an adjustable wrench with a big hole in one end to loop over the lever on the clamping mechanism and give it some gentle pressure (i.e. tighten the heck out of it.) Otherwise I find nothing unsafe about that operation, you can use an off set fence or add spring loaded pressure bars to your shop made fence to keep the stock against the back fence better, IME this is only really necessary when stock gets very narrow, for door parts you have plenty of contact with feed wheels and table to keep things moving nicely. PS keep the table well lubricated with wax or similar. I run most of my door parts that very same way and have never had an issue. Things can get a little wiggly on short parts, like under 7", but there are techniques to work around that problem. I say clean your posts with some emery cloth, tighten those things well and shape on. Nice thing about using the feeder is you may loose a little wood on the learning curve but you aren't likely to loose a hand.

[Bob Vavricka]

The back fence like you used is quite common. Like Mel alluded to, you might consider a set of Western Roller belts and wheels, or at least a set of yellow or blue (not red) polyurethane replacement wheels from them. They grip better and are a little softer so you need less "suspension travel" on the feeder to control the wood. I use less than 1/2" of angle on the feeder - more like 1/4" difference front to back, but I also have a main fence with pressure bars to help control the stock. When I had a standard fence, I made some sprung strips (like a long anti-kickback strip) that clamped onto the fence to give some side pressure just in front of the cutter. As you already mentioned, you could also just move the main fence closer. You will capture more dust that way as well as being safer.

As far as the feeder stand goes, probably worth pulling the post out and degreasing it and the clamp base. I slip a short piece of pipe over the handle (1/2" metal conduit) to get a bit more leverage and avoid that walking.

JR, Thanks for the thoughts. I do have new rollers from Western Roller on the stock feeder. It has been awhile since I got the shaper and feeder and have been working on cleaning everything up and adjusting it. This is the first real job I am using it for. I don't remember which wheels I got, but they are yellow and seem to have very good grip. You may have also hit on my problem with the main post rotating. When I got the shaper and feeder, it had been sitting for quite awhile and had a lot of surface rust. I took all the posts apart and cleaned them up and waxed them so they would adjust better. Your suggestion about degreasing the post and base clamp is probably right on target since I am sure I waxed the whole post. Bob V.

[Jeff Duncan]

You've got some good advice here already, I'll just add another voice that using an outboard fence is the way to go for door parts. I try to keep the shaper fence quite a bit closer though. Once I get the outboard fence set up I drop a piece of stock and set the shaper fence back about 1/4". Besides safety, in case things go a bit off, it also gives much better dust/chip collection. As for the feeder cleaning may help, however if it's one of the less expensive ones I've heard they sometimes have problems clamping tightly so may need to be extra careful????

good luck,
JeffD

[Mark Wooden]

All good advice, I run an outboard fence to shape and size frequently also. But I think that using 'cheater' bars, clubs and wrenches to tighten is not a good way to go when setting up a tower. The tapers and sockets on the knuckles of the feeder towers have to be kept clean and dry. No dust, no lubricant, galls or rust. They will tighten more than enough to hold all the stock the machine can reasonably run. I can't tell you how many times I've come across power feeds "that just won't hold" and found mis-shaped, dirty or cracked sockets, stripped bolts etc..Saw one held in place with rope once. Many times the cracks are very small so you can't see them. I've refused to use machines with bent handles, hammer and pipe wrench marks on them and will discount 25-50% when buying if I see bent handles. Keep them clean and they should work just fine.