Home Depot return policy change without notification

[Frank Pratt]

Being able to purchase multiple sizes, shapes, kinds, etc. of an item and return what's not needed is a tremendous benefit for the consumer. I'm more than happy to pay the additional cost of such a system that is built into the price of the goods sold. Imagine the amount of wasted time, fuel, and vehicle wear there would be if all sales were final.

I don't understand the view of some that buying excess & returning the unneeded portion is somehow a sin, or an abuse of the system.

And that comment by the store 'manager' that they just throw returns out is pure BS. That was probably the assistant night duty manager that had just started there last week.

[Jim Becker]

The local HD I shop at handles returns pretty well...they ask if there are issues and segregate anything that 'was not worthy' into separate "return to supplier" carts and put returned products that are just excess or with no problems (according to the customer returning them) into re-stocking carts. And yes, even without a physical receipt, purchases made with a CC show up in the register when they scan the items and the CC to verify the prior purchase.

[lowell holmes]

Maybe you fellows should go to Lowes.
I have a Home Depot near by and occasionally go there, but I have a credit card at Lowes.

[Frank Pratt]

I don't think anyone is complaining about HD's return policies being too harsh. Just the opposite; some feel they are too lenient.

[lowell holmes]

There is a Lowes store 1/4 mile from our Home Depot. Both stores are very accomodating.

Imagine that.

[Mark Bolton]

My lord. Reading through these comments makes me realize a total lack of concept or consideration for the supplier (forget about the retailer in this instance). Do you all realize that often times the big boxes force their vendors into blanket acceptance of any and all returns without recourse? This is why there are now labels inside products saying "do not return this item please call this number". Home Crapo is not bearing the brunt of the returns, the vendors who are picking up tractor and trailer loads of returns and boxes with items that were used for a job and returned fraudulently, bought by someone and it sat in their basement for a month gathering dust and they returned it, and now Home Depot is suppose to dust off the box to get it back to a pretty item so you'll put it in your cart? The ones who return the most are usually the ones who wont take a box with a piece of tape on it without a discount lol. Its insane. If any of you were in business and selling a product and forced to live by your own rule you're heads would explode and I would guess would be the most vocal complainers about the returns cutting into your profit.

I honestly have no idea whatsover how these business models stay afloat. There is no way the volume covers the loss but I would guess the profit margins do. I once was going to order a pair of hiking boots that cost $250 a pair and called the online shop asking how the sizes ran and they told me to just order a pair or two above and below my size and keep the pair that fit best and return the rest?!?!? So not only am I going to lock up 1500.00 of my credit card for a couple weeks to try on some shoes, I am going to return 2-4 pairs of shoes that have been opened, tied, worn, walked in, the cost to the vendor and the planet for the return freight (at their cost) and then they will likely ship the returned pairs out to someone who will reject them because they have clearly been tied up? (they probably re-tie before shipping but still).

I remember sitting in the stride rite as a kid and the owner would go in the back and fit me with a pair of shoes that may have been tried on nine times for all I know. Never thought twice.

I go into my lumberyard who gives me great service and when I have a job that can use a bunch of scabs/blocking material I dont even think twice and just load some of the picked over material from the retail crowd to help them move material. The service they provide pays for itself far and away more than arguing over a discount for a piece of packing tape on a box.

My lord. We are doomed. Part of me says pour it on the big boxes. They made their own misery with no question returns. Its unfortunately spawned a horrible horrible consumer mindset.

If I were home depot I would tell the people returning beat up crap to go pound sand. And just like they look in everything when your checking out I would be looking in the returns. And when someone returns a taped box and its loaded full of rocks or junk the cops would have their info, license, photo, and so on. I have several friends that have worked on the vendor/supply side of the big boxes and they, and the consumers, leave some horrifically insane scenarios in their wake.

Its simply unsustainable.

[Mike Henderson]

I once was going to order a pair of hiking boots that cost $250 a pair and called the online shop asking how the sizes ran and they told me to just order a pair or two above and below my size and keep the pair that fit best and return the rest?!?!? So not only am I going to lock up 1500.00 of my credit card for a couple weeks to try on some shoes, I am going to return 2-4 pairs of shoes that have been opened, tied, worn, walked in, the cost to the vendor and the planet for the return freight (at their cost) and then they will likely ship the returned pairs out to someone who will reject them because they have clearly been tied up? (they probably re-tie before shipping but still).

To comment just on shoes, the markup on shoes and boots is significant. Part of the need for that markup is that the shoe dealer has to have all sizes and not all of them will sell. The Internet shoe people save money by not having a brick and mortar store but they have the additional costs of shipping and returns.

Perhaps another reason is that people think expensive shoes are better than lower cost shoes so part of the price is just marketing.

Eyeglasses are similar. The manufactured cost of eyeglasses is very small compared to the selling price.

These companies have found ways to price their products and make money. While we may regret the high price of the products, we get what was choose to purchase.

Mike

[Doug Garson]

I agree with Mark, we have become accustomed to expecting to return purchases without question and some people abuse the privilege. I agree it is reasonable to pick up a few extra parts and return them unused a few days later, actually using them and then returning them is an abuse. Not sure if it applies in other markets but there is a chain of four stores in western Canada that sell only open box electronics returns from big box stores including TVs, cameras, tablets, smart phones, Dyson vacuums etc. When I saw the huge inventory in one of the stores and commented on it the salesman advised that 40% of all big box electronics are returned. That's got to have a huge impact on the big box stores bottom line and the pricing that we see. Most suppliers to contractors (plumbing, electrical etc.) charge restocking fees typically around 15%, they probably wave it for their good customers. No surprise their prices are lower than the big box stores.

[Edwin Santos]

I've had the benefit of performing financial analysis on more than one large retailer, so even with that perspective, I don't share the fatalistic view.

There are two kinds of returns at issue here. One type is return policy abuse. This is where a person "rents" an item that they never intended to buy and uses the return policy to do so. Other examples are returning items the customer has damaged or rendered unsaleable for some other reason like extended use.
Then there's fraud. Examples of fraud are when a person steals an item and then tries to "return" it for money i.e. personal gain. Other examples might be buying an item from one store for a given price and returning it to another where it sold for a higher price in an attempt to pocket the difference.
Of course there are also grey areas that fall in between these two definitions. All fraudulent and abusive returns are just plain wrong.

Let's peel back the onion a little. The industry estimates that fraudulent returns and abusive returns combined represent around 6.5% of total returns. In other words 93.5% of returns are honest, legitimate, non-abusive. So for example, if I am doing a painting project at home and want to avoid multiple trips or interruptions, I might buy more rollers, masking tape and other supplies than I really ultimately need, knowing I will come back and return the extra, unopened items. In this case my return falls into the 93.5%. When I go to Home Depot and I look around at the return counter, my observations are consistent with this, the vast majority of returns I see around me look legit.

This is not to say the 6.5% is not a staggering number in real terms because it is, but it's the cost of doing business from the perspective of a company that does $108 billion in annual sales and is playing the long game. Which is to say sometimes you take it on the chin for a nickel in order to make a dollar.
For the home improvement sector, the average national rate of returns as a percent of overall sales is about 11%. So fraud and abuse represents 6.5% of 11%. Therefore if we're going to be specific, they are taking it on the chin for 7 tenths of 1 cent in order to achieve a dollar in sales. I'd take that deal.

I happen to think Home Depot is a phenomenal American success story. The company celebrated its 40th anniversary last year, has achieved a market cap of about $260 billion, and the two original founders became multi-billionaires along the way. Low/no-hassle returns has been a core piece of their formula. How much more sustainable can you get?

[Mark Bolton]

and the two original founders became multi-billionaires along the way

Capitalism at its core which I support. That said, no differnt than the walmart model, off the backs of maintaining a low wage workforce, crushing vendors and suppliers at any and every opportunity, patently turning their backs on their country of origin with regards to workforce and supply chain, and for me, by far the worst, is single handedly destroying the quality of goods in the home building/home repair industry on mass in lieu of personal profit. Anyone in the trade, any vendor, any supply house, will tell you the degradation in product quality to support those founders multi-billion dollar net worth has come at a horrific cost to the industry, the planet, and the consumer, across the board. Entire dishwashers are ripped out rather than repaired, faucets thrown away instead of repaired. Light fixtures changed numerous times over the course of short span homeownership due to rust, failure, and not because of changing tastes. The list is endless. And its all in the landfill, and its all re-purchased by the consumer 2, 3, 4, times but todays average consumer knows no better and the younger generations have no idea that you can even repair a faucet.

To their credit they have crossed the event horizon and are in clear air where the consumer today has never had the knowledge, or recollection, of a quality tool, light fixture, or appliance. They are completely accustomed to things not lasting, falling apart, falling short, and simply re-buying several times instead of once. They have changed the market to an extent that there are no longer many quality alternatives easily accessible for comparison. Its an ingenious business model. You "take it on the chin" long enough to eliminate all the competition and then you only offer the items to your customers that feed you the best margin.

Anyone in business is familiar with lost leaders. It happens every day even in my small world.

Your view at the return counter is far different than a lot I have seen. People unloading entire carts of material covered in dust, been poorly kept in their project, material that is pretty much valueless as the time it would take to clean it up and put it back on the rack would exceed its value instantly. If I am planning on returning something I guess I have some old world notion that it needs to be as pristine as it was the day I bought it so the retailer has a chance to resell it. If its been in my house, shop, truck, whatever, and is bing'd up, dusty, clearly used, I can not in good conscience expect to get my money back.

I guess my point is not whether or not its an acceptable loss to the big box "taking it on the chin". Its that they are spawning a consumer that is lazy, opportunistic, and pretty much downright selfish. A consumer that if they were treated in an identical manner would be incensed and railing against such behavior.

Its a sad state of affairs, but as you say, they have created the system, they have done the math, and the billionaires prove there is money to be made. The question to me is what is the global cost.

[Edwin Santos]

I guess my point is not whether or not its an acceptable loss to the big box "taking it on the chin". Its that they are spawning a consumer that is lazy, opportunistic, and pretty much downright selfish. A consumer that if they were treated in an identical manner would be incensed and railing against such behavior.

Its a sad state of affairs, but as you say, they have created the system, they have done the math, and the billionaires prove there is money to be made. The question to me is what is the global cost.

Alright, valid points above. But I wonder - and this is just speculation on my part - is the root cause the retailers and their no-hassle return policies spawning the selfish consumer? Or was the consumer already there, and already so pre-disposed, and the retailer just came up with a way to build these habits into their system and capitalize on it?

In my opinion, the deterioration in values, integrity and personal accountability that you reference is not created the the retailer. It starts at home and in childhood, and the root cause is parenting and lack thereof.
That's what's changed over time, and yes, it's a whole other subject so once again, we're off topic in the off topic forum.

[Mark Bolton]

is the root cause the retailers and their no-hassle return policies spawning the selfish consumer? Or was the consumer already there, and already so pre-disposed, and the retailer just came up with a way to build these habits into their system and capitalize on it?

I dont believe so but that is also delusional optimism on my part. I dont know if when I was young people didnt pull this crap because they were nicer, or it just wasnt an option, the retail policy didnt allow it, or the retailers just didnt stand for it. Who knows. Without a doubt the sheer access to cheap labor manufacturing has allowed big box retailers to eat a lot of loss at the expense of the planet, the consumer, and the countries manufacturing base.

In my opinion, the deterioration in values, integrity and personal accountability that you reference is not created the the retailer.

Its only created by the retailer in that globalization and raping, polluting, capitalizing on, other countries is now a much easier option. We have learned from those bad practices in this country yet even with our painful learning curve we now ship our business to countries that are not wise enough to learn from our horrid mistakes and are flushing plating materials and thousands of tons of waste down the rivers like we did in the industrial revolution. Again, one would hope the billionaires of HD and the like would not wish such a fate on their worst enemy but in the pursuit of the all mighty buck people will do anything.

It starts at home and in childhood, and the root cause is parenting and lack thereof.
That's what's changed over time,

You'll never get an argument from me there. Thats a war that's being waged by the few, and the grandparents and great grandparents at this point. In my guess its a whisper lost in the noise.

we're off topic in the off topic forum.

Off topic is off topic, the thread is old/reconstituted anyway.

[Frank Pratt]

I think this has been a really good thread. All the opinions presented, whether I agree with them or not, have provoked a lot of thought. And I love that it's gone off, off topic.

[lowell holmes]

I returned a new in box purchase to Lowes this morning and purchased a replacement. They cheerfully refunded my credit card.

[Edwin Santos]

I returned a new in box purchase to Lowes this morning and purchased a replacement. They cheerfully refunded my credit card.

You must have worked some of that infamous charm, you devil!