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Thread: Open Handle Backsaws.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Thanks Tony for the photo's. Is the length of the saw plate around 10 inch. !

    Stewie;
    Saw plate is 12" Stewie.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  2. #17
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    Thanks Tony. What's the depth below the hardback.

  3. #18
    Yeah,Stewie,good point. While in modern catalogs woodworking benches are "traditionally made of beech" it was mainly just plentiful and cheap. If I had been willing to use a non traditional wood....I would have had a bench a lot sooner.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Thanks Tony. What's the depth below the hardback.
    1-3/4" below, and a total of 2-1/2" from top.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  5. #20
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    I wonder if Disston was so experienced with our American way of pushing everything past its limits and knew that that backsaw would be shoved through the 2" wet oak with both hands and thrown into the back of a wagon along with other tools. I can remember back far enough that contractors took the back seat out of their car to use it as a pick up and the trunk was a tool box. Just a thought.
    Jim

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    1-3/4" below, and a total of 2-1/2" from top.
    Hi Tony. Derek mentions in his thread that the original saw for the Miller's Falls #15 1/2 was 16" long with a depth of 2 1/2". You mention your saw was also made to suit the same mitre box. The 16" length stroke does make more sense.

    Stewie;

  7. #22
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    Stewie,

    I'll have to check the dimensions of my miter box to make sure it is the same as Derek's and not the smaller size. I'll post tomorrow.

    T.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Most likely back then the thought and study of seasonal movement wasn't a consideration.

    Apple orchards were likely pretty old and trees being replaced. This may have led to a cheap supply of wood.

    jtk
    Hi Jim. Sounds like Beech was the primary handle wood used by Disston. http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/sawhandle.html

    Stewie;

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bontz View Post
    Just a thought. I have thought about this some in the past. It is my thoughts that an open handle is an inferior design. Only due to improper use. If one pushes below the area where the webbing of the hand rest, it puts an increased force ( rotational ) on the neck ( webbing ) area of the handle. Essentially creating a moment about the area. Increasing the possibility of shearing at that weakest point. And that area IS the weakest point. Much like a plane tote in reverse. Put too much force on the top of the plane tote instead of toward the base of the tote as you should, and the tote will shear near the base. The open handle saw design is no different, except in reverse. This is also why the grain needs to be oriented in the correct direction. Ultimately both examples come down to improper use of the tool. ( providing it was done correctly in the first place ) The closed handle, with or without the lambs tongue, helps prevents this. Also, as you know, the open handle is faster and cheaper to make much the same as a handle without a lamb's tongue vs one with the lamb's tongue. Basic physics and economics IMHO. Sorry no diagram showing the forces acting on the handle. I am currently at work.
    Oh. I would like to see those pics as well.
    Those are some of the same thoughts I have about the open handle design. It conveys a sense of intended delicacy - like the tool is meant for light duty work. Maybe there is a sense of accuracy as well. The ope handle is obviously meant for low force / leverage since it places the users wrist into a weak position also. Nothing wrong with any of this of course. Artisan tools don't have to follow the typical patterns of course.

  10. #25
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    Well, there is a difference between using the LN dovetail saw and a 6 pt rip saw. The rip saw would be terrible with the LN handle, and vice-versa. I agree with Pat.

    I personally like the open handle design where it is appropriate, however the saw handles I've made are all closed handles.

    If anyone has made an open handle for a rip saw, please post a picture of it. I would like to see it. Hmmm. . .

    Who knows what might crop up in this discussion.

  11. #26
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    More pics, showing my open handle Disston backsaw, with the small MF miter box. Box is 12" long (same as Derek's), and saw came with the box. The cherry waste pieces on the table are not original, but I do have the original ones in storage. The saw and box were in better than excellent shape when I got it, with whoever owned it, hardly ever using it. Not related to this miter box, it is one of at least 17 other miter boxes I have-all picked up for around $5 to no more than $25 through the years, some with, some without saws! Just couldn't let them sit idle at the various flea markets, etc. I've found them at.

    Miter saw 1.jpg

    Miter saw 2.jpg

    Miter saw 3.jpg

    Miter saw 4.jpg
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  12. #27
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    It would surprise me if anyone would plan around significant misuse by the user. If you break an open handle then you misused the saw.

    Disstons were made in a time when most of the users would be professionals, maybe they had other reasons for the open handle to be more rare?
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 09-07-2015 at 9:52 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #28
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    This is the original handle for the #15 1/2 mitre box:



    This has the dimensions:



    Sorry Tony, but your saw is not close to the original.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #29
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    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 09-07-2015 at 11:14 AM.

  15. #30
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    Now this has me very puzzled and may be the reason Pete Taran wanted to see the saw in person. The saw shows no evidence of the plate or back being shortened. My miter box is the same width as yours, Derek (was your saw marked "MF" or Disston?). I'm also puzzled that mine is open handled which is odd for a CC miter box. Might be another instance of Disston using what was on hand to fill orders?
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

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