Originally Posted by Peter Aeschliman
I second this!
The internet has a way of raising expectations and setting standards far above what is required. I have fallen into that trap many times. Getting older and wiser (I hope).
Member
I second this!
The internet has a way of raising expectations and setting standards far above what is required. I have fallen into that trap many times. Getting older and wiser (I hope).
Member
Must say that as already posted a couple of pages back (and explained) i flat out don't. (second that)
Why make a virtue out of something that doesn't need to be?
The very last thing we and the industry need is for it to be handed the justification to sling out even more junky drill presses. Precision isn't a requirement on every hole, but a drill press is the sort of thing you should be buying once - and there's more than a few scenarios where the need (for reasonable precision) comes up. We can pretty much make holes in wood with a pointed stick if we have to, but do we really want to? We don't need micron accuracies as in some fields of engineering, but why buy a drill press at all if reasonable accuracy doesn't matter?
Making a drill with a reasonably true running spindle isn't exactly rocket science. Do you really want to live with a wobbly load of rubbish that heads off across the floor on its own when it's started up for half a lifetime for the sake of perhaps $50 or $100????
Last edited by ian maybury; 09-07-2015 at 7:06 AM.
Member
My issue with Delta is with rebates. Several years ago I bought the 18-900 with a $100 dollar rebate. After waiting more than 6 months with no rebate check in hand, I started emailing them. After several emails they replied in a less-than-professional-manor. They claimed all rebate checks had to be signed by the VP and due to my complaining I was moved to the front of the line, and now others would be delayed because of me. What BS! If you offer a rebate get the rebate to the customer in a reasonable time. To me that is within 8 weeks, 12 at the max. Not 6+ months later and then only because I complained.
I imagine they were being intentionally slow with hopes people will forget they have a rebate coming.
I said then and I still say, I will never buy another delta product as long as I live. There are other options available.
[OP]
Member
Took a risk and went with a new Delta 18-900L. Home Depot is having a sale, list price only $799.
I realize there is a risk if I need parts or service, but I ran into bad reviews and warnings with every single new offering on the market, at this price, I just felt like the Delta was a good calculated risk.
Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, I'll be sure to run a review and post here if I encounter any issues with parts or customer service.
John
Member
John,
I have the Steel City 20520 that I bought used a few years ago and it is almost identical to your Delta, I think that you will be very pleased with it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Erik
Canada's Atlantic Paradise - Prince Edward Island
Member
You can reduce the risk considerably by physically inspecting the press before it's delivered - if it's coming from a shop or other local premises and is not sealed into a crate...
Member
I think you will be very happy with it. It also goes together very easily, with decent instructions. A helper is nice to have for putting the head on the pole, it's fairly heavy.
Earl
Member
I hear what you're saying. The operative word in your post is "reasonable." We're of course debating degrees of accuracy, not absolute accuracy.
It's interesting to me how, in my observation, two major groups seem to exist in amongst woodworking hobbyists: those whose standard of accuracy is based on the end product and those who expect absolute precision.
Those in the latter group tend to post complaints about the accuracy of drill presses, cast iron machine tables that are .002" out of flat, etc.
IMHO, "reasonable" for a furniture piece is as a piston-fitting joint, or a joint where there are no perceivable gaps. Runout is moot if the end product is within your tolerances. Right?
My personal experience, limited to the two low end Asian import drill presses I've owned, is that both work perfectly fine and within my standard of reasonable accuracy. Hence my challenge to the group earlier in the thread. I've never taken out the dial indicator because I've never had an issue with unreasonably inaccurate holes.
Others may disagree based on their work. I think the key is that people are aware of the precision they need in the practical world, not just having it for the sake of having it.
IMHO.
Guest
Thanks for the tip
Fine WoodWorking rated the Delta Delta 18-900L drill press the "Best Overall" in their Oct 2015 issue. I was considering buying the Powermatic (which wasn't in the review) the next time it went on sale, but the Home Depot Sale on the Delta pushed me off the fence.
I had a 10% coupon from Lowes - so I called Customer Service and they were willing to apply it to the Drill Press, so the total out-the-door price for me was $776, and I can pick it up from my local store when it comes in. (they never even asked me for the coupon code)
Member
Perhaps that's the difference Peter. This is long because i think the story needs setting out.
I got by with a $250 cheap Eastern drill press from the late 90s until recently, but it was cr**. It drilled holes, but was a mess and ultimately very poor economy. It caused so much hassle over the years. I can imagine that a cheap press may seem good value if you happen to get a decent one. Trouble is that tends to be a lottery - and $250 or $300 at entry level is still enough that it makes no sense to play roulette with it. People are paying more than double that (it seems to be possible to pay up to $1,000 and machines still have problems with flimsy tables and runout) with still no certainty of getting a reasonable machine. It's only necessary to scan this forum to see mixed good and bad reports. (with the same faults popping up again and again)
People time and again come on forums to ask what to buy, and get suckered into coughing up by the 'mine's great' brigade. They labouriously compare spec sheets as though they were buying a typical 100% quality consumer product - blissfully ignoring the advice of those who have found the hard way that it's often not that simple. Or recognise the risks, but plunk the money down anyway hoping they get a decent one since the alternatives are limited and take work. The cautious few head off and physically check a machine before buying.
It seems very much as though our compulsion to buy cheap and big up what we bought has resulted in a market where there is minimal pressure for quality. We're creating that reality by these actions...
My situation wasn't about tight engineering vs. reasonable woodworking tolerances. The runout was so bad that i never actually bothered to put a dial gauge on to check it - drills obviously whirled when looked at by eye alone. Probably .020in plus. The chuck was so bad that the key didn't fit properly, and it tended to slip on drills. I bought every chuck key i could get my hands on over the years, but could never find one that engaged properly in the teeth - the hole that the nose pushed into was oversize in the chuck. No point whatsoever buying a new chuck since the spindle was all over the place. (see below) It as a result of out of balance pulleys clattered and vibrated badly enough at top RPM to almost move itself across the floor. The table didn't clamp tightly enough to the column to be fully reliable in holding a position. Almost every single knob (e.g. the screws locking the belt tension adjustment) had plastic heads which broke off, and had to be replaced.
It needed great care when drilling larger holes (10mm dia in wood) as there was vertical slop in the spindle which allowed a form of chatter to get going - which apart from making a mess of a hole would at times cause the chuck to drop out of the taper. 8mm dia was about its limit in steel. The belts stretched and went beyond the range of adjustment in a year or so. The crank that adjusted the table height by turning a gear that engaged in a rack on the column broke after a year or so too because it was in a cheap plastic that went brittle - probably because it had no UV inhibitor in it. The rack that the table was adjusted up and down on was so flimsy that it bowed under the (minimal) load of the table, and had to be straightened and wired to the column.
I drilled many holes with it in wood to put in screws or whatever, there was never a problem in that regard because accuracy didn't matter. Likewise when it was a case of placing a hole in the face of a piece of ply - because it was a lightening hole or something. Against that trying to drill a clean hole in ply with a forstner caused a ragged hole entry because of the amount by which it was 'whirling'. I sometimes make a hand drill guide by putting a hole though a block of wood to clamp on if i want to place a hole square and accurately centred in say the edge of a board for a catch. Trouble is that requires placing the hole to within a small part of a mm, and the tip of e.g. a brad point was whirling by a lot more than that.
I make fixtures and stuff from especially aluminium and phenolic, and sometimes rely on e.g. dowel pins to locate parts. It's just not possible to drill a hole to an accurate or even a predictable size with a drill with lots of runout - never mind to the required size tolerance to give an interference fit so the dowel can be pressed in. It's not possible either to locate a hole centre using a known thickness slip to space the side of the drill from a fence either - a stock technique. My background is engineering, and the point is that given a machine with reasonable capability there's possibilities that open up.
i.e. there are lots of jobs where even a woodworking drill press needs reasonable accuracy.
The fundamental frustration for me is that (a) the quality of most cheap drill presses is so inconsistent - examples of the same machine can be decent, or really bad, and (b) it's all so unnecessary. It's actually as easy to make a spindle that runs reasonably accurately as it is to make one that wobbles all over the place. The wobbles follow from either a total lack of care in set up, bad tooling, or from running a worn out machine. None is the difference between a cheap press or even a moderately expensive one - the impact on cost is only incremental. It'll never happen though as long as we don't push back by refusing to buy junk.
What in heaven is the motivation that seeks to turn something so far from being acceptable into a virtue? If hand held power drills were produced at this level of quality (and some of the cheap ones are not great either - but somehow most feel able to step up to the mark and buy the better brands in this case) WW3 would break out and they would be off the market in a month...
Last edited by ian maybury; 09-09-2015 at 12:04 PM.
Member
For Lucky Texans, Beautiful Powermatic 1150VS showed up Buy it Now today for $850. DP for a lifetime.
Guest
I picked up my Delta 18-900L from Home Depot today and I am VERY pleased with the purchase
First impression - fit and finish is excellent. I checked the runout on the the spindle with my Betterly Una Gauge and the needle barely even moved. If I had to guess I would say it was a .0002. The runout on the chuck was also very reasonable at .002
Minor problem - the top cover had a very small crack in it at the back, I am guessing from shipping. I called the 1-800 number and spoke with customer service. They requested I take a pic of the crack along with my receipt that I then emailed to me and they responded by saying they will send me the new part
I also called tech support to ask about the spindle runout - and was speaking with a tech in less that 10 minutes.
So, at this point - very pleased with the drill press and Delta customer service. At $776 out the door and no rebates - this was a great deal
This is so great to hear. Sounds like the "new" folks plan to add some oomph to their reputation. That is a fantastic price as well. Congrats.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
Hi,
I joined the forum to thank John Akerblom and the other person who's post must have gotten deleted. Like John I was waiting for the PM to go on sale but the Delta price drop, which I would not have learned except from John, caused me to take the Delta plunge. I used the Lowes 10% off idea from a following post.
For those interested, the Delta is a nice drill press. The castings are rough, (as I expected from all the comments about Chinese mfg), where it doesn't matter and the machining was very good in the areas it does matter. I measured runout with my dial indicator on the spindle piece, before I set the chuck, and it was .0005, yes 5 tenths. The runout on the outer surface of the chuck below the key insert hole was .0025, on on a drill bit it was about .0015. I did not have a machined concentric rod to chuck up to provide a better measurement. The belt changing is quite easy and while it isn't as featured or as nice as the PM, it will do for me. I would rather have the PM but with the difference in $ I bought a mobile base, a nice Wilton DP vise, and some quality drill bits from WL Fuller, and Norseman. I am still up hundreds of dollars over the PM.
For what it is worth the worst part of the entire package was the chuck key. It has the spring pin, and there is a lot of play between the teeth of the key and the chuck. It doesn't fit very well and the spring force doesn't help. The chuck is well machined and I am going to look for another key.
I would have posted earlier but I had a lot of trouble joining the forum. It took longer than when I got my security clearance 35 years ago, long since expired. I guess, like the government, Sawmill Creek had to interview all of my neighbors and former teachers. My grade school teachers are probably long gone and that was probably the hold up.
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