[OP]
Member
I just got an estimate for adding a radiant (natural gas) heater to my 26' X 32' shop.
The contractor claims that a 25,000 btu radiant heater will actually work better, and cost way less to run than a 45,000 btu Hot Dawg or 40,000 btu Reznor.
The radiant heater costs just over half of what the Hot Dawg does.
Anybody else have radiant heat in their shop? If so, how do you like it?
Member
JIm~~ no radiant heat here but I am investigating corn burners. Very cheap to operate after the initial blow of the purchase price, I am somewhat concerned with an "open" flame as I occasionally have a dust issue?? Bruce
Member
Jim, it can and will get COLD in NE Ohio. I remember it being -22F one night when I was in college in Akron.
A couple things for you to consider.
1) How well is the shop insulated? If you are serious about heating it, get at least a foot of blown-in fiberglass in the attic.
2) how well are the walls insulated? R-11 is just barely acceptable, with R-19 being a reasonable value.
3) Do you plan to heat the shop 24/7? A programmable thermostat might be a good help.
4) Are the windows and doors sealed? A lot of money could be wasted heating the air coming through the cracks.
These are points that you have probably looked at, but you can never have too much insulation.
If I were doing the job, I would insist on a closed combustion heater that takes its combustion air from an outside source. I would also get another estimate on what BTU rating is required. You don't want too much or the heater will cycle on and off frequently. You don't want too small, or it will run continuously. Your job is to find the sweet spot midway between the two extremes.
My opinions are numerous, and some of them are also correct.
Best Regards, Ken
Member
Hi Jim,
I have seen similar threads before and I have been in auto repair and metal fab shops which were heated with radiant gas heaters. The shops I was in were heated very well and it seemed efficient. That being said, my concern would be with the fact that radiant heat is known for heating the objects in the room as opposed to heating all the air and I wonder what effect that will have on wood or projects made of it? I don't know and am curious to see the response from others.
Jerry
Member
If I did it all again, I wouldnt think twice about having a pellet( or corn) stove in the shop. Those things are awesome and with a closed door on the unit, not sure an "open flame" would scare me (and I aint sure there is anyone more paranoid of fire, than me)
I installed a pellet stove in my kitchen and the cost is silly money to heat my house.
Good luck.
Originally Posted by Jim DeLaney
[OP]
Member
Yeah, last winter was mild, and it only got to -12°
1. 10" of fiberglas in the ceiling. (10 foot ceiling, btw)
2. 6" in the walls.
3. Programmable thermostat is part of the deal.
4. Double paned windows, and insulated doors.
I've had three heating contractors give estimates, and all recommended a minimum of 30K btu for forced air (one saud 45K). The two that offered radiant both said 25K btu would do it.
Guest
Hi Jim,
I built a 1560sqft shop and chose to use radiant heat in the slab. I have both natural gas and water plumbed into the (hobby) shop and decided to use an 80 gal. hot water tank as the heat source and just used a 4 zone manifold, pump, relay switch, and thermostat to manage the whole system. The tank pulls combustion air from outside and cools the exhaust gases as they exit so the vent can be placed anywhere on an outside wall. The tubing suppliers recommended a max of 250 lineal feet of tubing per zone, so I fudged a bit on that stat, but it keeps the shop very comfortable. I usually keep the temp~ 60deg. during the winter and if I plan on extended shop time on the weekends, or if the temp stays low for a while I goose it up for the duration. The slab holds a lot of heat and it sure feels nice having a constant temp.
My previous shop only had a wood stove for heating and when I designed the new shop I didn't want the hassle of cleaning up the ashes, etc., but now it would be nice to use my scrap instead on throwing it away and to boost the temp inside if the temp outaide drops . So you may want to keep that idea in mind, particularly if you have long, colder winters. Here in the Pacific NW, things stay pretty mild in the winter so thats not such a big concern.
I think radiant heat is the best choice, and worth the extra investment. I have a good friend that is also my plumber and he got all the goodies for me at cost and advised me on the layout, so you may want to talk to yours if the HVAC guys prices seem high. Good luck, John.
P.S. I just reread all the posts and I realized you may be referring to an overhead type radiant system. If thats the case---never mind!! JCB
Member
Jim, it sounds like you are right on top of the insulation situation.
Have you considered a regular force air system? My shop has a 2 ton heat pump that services the shop of about 600 sq-ft. The blower and evaporator are in the attic with two air returns and 6 outlets in the the shop ceiling. With a heating only system in the attic, you can get your combustion air in the attic without stealing heated air from below.
You probably know this, but you never want to close up the attic ventilation in the winter, insulation only works when it is dry and closing the attic will allow moisture to accumulate thus lowering your effective insulation value.
Well, I have exhausted my knowledge on the subject. Ultimately it will be what you feel best using. Good Luck
Best Regards, Ken
Member
I have all sorts of serious tools in my shop includings lots of oliver, martin, maka, porter, kindt collins and wynig.
But when it comes to heating my shop, I sometimes wonder. Its in the colorado high country so we know a thing or two about cold. I have two 18th century wood burning stoves. One is a marathon globe heater and the other is a fancy chrome and black parlor heater.
I also have a 1961 Reznor 50,000 BTU propane shop heater. Since propane costs lots of money, this is set to 50 degrees and left there. That way, the shop temp never drops low enough to rust my machines and warm up is not as much of a shock. Cast iron warms up slowly and to rapaid a warm up can cause condensation esp. if its below 50 degrees.
This setup has served me very well and those vintage stoves really make the shop pretty cozy. Now I dont advocate getting vintage stoves unless you really wish to. Some communities have tried to ban these. Also, there is an attitude about using wood stoves in woodworking shops. All the super experts warn against it. But dozens of folks use them including C H Becksvort and many other noted pros. The trick is in knowing when you can spray finish and keeping the major dust under control. Also, the old reznor has a semi open burner box. When it does kick on, it makes a huge whoooosssshhhh sound and you can see the array of blue burner flamettes. Thus, this gas heater is no more or no less dangerous than the two wood burning stoves.
I have seen these heaters you talk about. They are neat but a bit of a gimmick. You may just wish to snag an older reznor. I love my old reznor. Got it from my dad and I am happy with it. I have actually looked on ebay for these and they do show up once in a while. You may be better off just buying a good condition used reznor. I also like the looks of the 1960s rezonors and that also influences me a bit.
Good Luck in your quest for the toasty winter months...
Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.
Contributor
Hi Jim,
I am in Southern Ontario and have a 24 x 28 ft shop, insulated with R-20. My choice for heat was Modine High Efficiancy Unit Heater at 50 000 Btu.
I believe a Radiant Tube Heater will not heat wood.
With a Forced Air Furnace Dust will be an issue with the air filters.
When working the temperature is usually set at 60 F. At night time I lower the tempearture to 50 F. The shop warms up in about 15 min.
Chris
Member
Jim ,I live about 50 miles north of you on the shores of Lake Erie.N.Kingsville to be exact.A few years ago I had a bad experience with a radiant,(ventless) heater in my shop.I went out to the shop one morning and everything was soaking wet,Especially the cast iron top on table saw,joiner,etc.I converted that shop over to a vented heater,and had no more problems.I have since moved and have a bigger shop,actually part of an old garage,(pole barn).It is insulated,I have no idea how well.Anyway it is heated with a regular forced air gas furnace.I only turn the heat on when I go out there to work.Cost of natural gas today prohibits me from heating the shop all the time.I would reccomend a forced air system.Of course if you havent put your floor in yet the hot water heat in the floor setup is ideal.If you go with the radiant heat,make darn sure it is sized right for your shop,figure in how well it is insulated,etc.The ventless type heaters will make water.
Guest
Hi Jim
I have had a radiant propane heater in my shop since December of 1999. I bought mine from Reverberray, and it is one of those tube heaters that goes the length of the shop in the peak of the roof. I have an open ceiling, with insulation in the roof (3" only) and the walls are somewhat insulated. There is more to be done, but even so the walls are half walls with the lower half being concrete and the upper half being post and beam covered with barn board.
My shop is a little smaller than yours, but not nearly as well insulated. My heater is a 50,000 - 75,000 BTU unit that starts out at the higher setting and kicks back to the lower once the room gets up to heat. I installed it myself, which was not a lot of fun. It was heavy, and hanging it from the rafters was a real chore for my and one of my daughters, but we got it in .
It does a great job heating the shop, and if the building were a little tighter, it would do an even better job. It was not cheap at around $1200 for the heater and all its attendant parts, plus another $600 for my propane tank, but since I own the tank, I am saving quite a bit of money on propane. Of course, that last statement is relative.
I like it, it is very comfortable, and reasonably efficient given the nature of my building, but we are in the process of installing a wood burning furnace for heating the house, and sizing it to heat the shop eventually as well. I am not sure what I will be going to, whether radiant heat in the floor or walls, but I want to stay away from an air blower. I can't think of anything that might be worse than blowing hot air around, with the exception of building a campfire in the middle of the room!
Bill
[OP]
Member
Bill,
Have you noticed any condensation on your iron tool surfaces? Also, what about glue-ups? Any problems with uneven heating of the wood surfaces, or with the glue curing?
BTW, I'm having mine installed by the contractor - mainly because he needs to tie in the gas line to the house's. They're coming on Friday to do it.
Guest
Hi Jim
No condensation to speak of, but then there is no exhaust into the shop. The heater takes air in from outside and exhausts it back outside, so it does not mix with air from the shop. Every now and then on a very windy day I will get a whiff of fumes, since I had to install it with the exhaust on the west side of the building, but that is very minor. Oh the luxury of having it done for you! Good luck with it.
Bill
[OP]
Member
Bill,
Thanks for the info.
As for the luxury - not really. The gas tie-in requires a permit, and the contractor is licensed and can take care of it. Actually, it's not costing all that much because I've already got the piping run (the hard part!) and all the contractor has to do is make the connection.
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