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Thread: Horizontal mortiser..

  1. #1

    Horizontal mortiser..

    Do i go tilting table or fixed.

    With a Felder Ad941 and RL 125 to be delivered and thus paid for in full in only a couple short weeks time i am contemplating my next tool purchase.

    The three big tools on my list and listed by priority of purchase go as this mortiser, drill press and oscillating edge sander.

    I'm inclined to just order the Felder stand alone mortising unit. However i have noticed at least one company making a unit with a tilting table. I have no idea the price and assume it is pretty expensive.

    So the question for people that use a mortiser on the regular, should i spring the extra cash for the tilting table and be happy i did later when the money is spent and i could care less. Or will it just be a feature i never use and wish i had spent the money elsewhere?

    The machine will be used in furniture and cabinet construction along with the odd art piece..

  2. #2
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    It's really up to you to decide…..do you ever see yourself doing diagonal mortises? If not it's a fair amount extra for something you'll never use. If you think you might with the "odd art piece" then it may be worth it? Mines a fixed table and can't say as though I've ever wished I had a tilting. Then again if something comes up someday…….

    good luck,
    JeffD

  3. #3
    These are the machines that peak my interest. Pretty sure the Kundig is out of the question. Any others i should be considering i am missing?

    http://www.houfek.com/sanders/oscill...36.htm?lang=en

    http://www.martin-usa.com/products/tm100/

    http://www.kuendig.ch/en/edge-sanding/kuendig-uniq-s/

    http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/produ...fs-900-kf.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    These are the machines that peak my interest. Pretty sure the Kundig is out of the question. Any others i should be considering i am missing?

    http://www.houfek.com/sanders/oscill...36.htm?lang=en

    http://www.martin-usa.com/products/tm100/

    http://www.kuendig.ch/en/edge-sanding/kuendig-uniq-s/

    http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/produ...fs-900-kf.html
    Only one of your links leads to a mortiser (the Martin) - the others are all sanders.

    To the question - Jeff has it nailed, I think. If you're often going to be doing work where a tilting table mortiser is an asset - then get one. Otherwise, for the occasional piece that requires an angled mortise, a shop built jig should be more than sufficient.

    By the way - given the quality of the machines that pique your interest (at least as illustrated by your links), you're going to drop a pretty penny whether you go for tilting or not.

  5. #5
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    I can think of two instances where you might need a tilting table. Some odd angles on chairs, and louver doors. I could rig the louver doors easy enough on a flxed table....for chairs the tilting table may be handy. But for almost everything else I encounter....I'd buy a domino XL. I'm using one at work and cant say I really want a slot mortiser at all. It handles all but the very biggest of mortises, set up is super fast, a slot mortiser takes up a fair amount of real estate in the shop, the domino almost none. Pretty sure I could jig that up to do angled mortises too should the need arise.

    Another for the list to consider.......http://www.atlanticmach.com/standard/Griggio_TRC_N.pdf
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harding View Post
    ... you're going to drop a pretty penny whether you go for tilting or not.
    Not when compared to his brand new J/P and Dust Extractor.....

    I'm hoping Patrick will give us the rest of the shop tooling list...........Which DP? Which osc sander got picked? The links were set to those. Table saw/slider? Band saw?

  7. #7
    Chairs are mostly my motivation for buying a tilting table. I can see myself using the added feature although not very often in all honesty. The feature will however get used from time to time will surely not go unused. Do i need it though for the money. The felder machine can be had for a a short few grand give or take.

    As for the domino well that will be purchased at some point also. I kinda considered the XL and Seneca route but then decided i think i would like the stand alone machine so i can make true mortise and tenon joints.

    I am a carpenter somewhere lost between finish work, kitchen installations and the general all around construction of 3-5 million dollar homes coupled with the maintenance and repair of them. Point being i am a avid Festool user to date and assume a Domino is at some point in my future. I think for sight work the smaller would be better suited. For home hobby type stuff "furniture making" i think the slot mortiser peaks my interest a bit more as i just dont see using dowels on repro or one off custom pieces i am building simply for the joy of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    I can think of two instances where you might need a tilting table. Some odd angles on chairs, and louver doors. I could rig the louver doors easy enough on a flxed table....for chairs the tilting table may be handy. But for almost everything else I encounter....I'd buy a domino XL. I'm using one at work and cant say I really want a slot mortiser at all. It handles all but the very biggest of mortises, set up is super fast, a slot mortiser takes up a fair amount of real estate in the shop, the domino almost none. Pretty sure I could jig that up to do angled mortises too should the need arise.

    Another for the list to consider.......http://www.atlanticmach.com/standard/Griggio_TRC_N.pdf

  8. #8
    Right now i have a ICS Sawstop and a Laguna 14/12. I own quite a arsenal of Festools as i use them for work including MFT tables and the CMS VL router table.

    I will at some point add a slider moulder combo machine to the mix but in all honesty that will be my last purchase as i can do most of what i do on my Sawstop and CMS.

    As mentioned above the slot mortiser and oscillating edge sander are next. Then upgrade the sears bench top drill press i was given from the 80's and i should be pretty good for a while. I cant figure what way to go, Powermatic seems attractive other than the complaints. Maybe a General or a Rikon?

    Another bandsaw will be added to the stable probably a Aggazzani or the Felder 610? The second bandsaw will probably happen right after the edge sander as it is relatively short money compared to my most recent two purchases.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kent A Bathurst View Post
    Not when compared to his brand new J/P and Dust Extractor.....

    I'm hoping Patrick will give us the rest of the shop tooling list...........Which DP? Which osc sander got picked? The links were set to those. Table saw/slider? Band saw?
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 08-23-2015 at 9:45 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Then upgrade the sears bench top drill press i was given from the 80's and i should be pretty good for a while. I cant figure what way to go, Powermatic seems attractive other than the complaints. Maybe a General or a Rikon?
    Patrick -

    First: those DP's stand out as not belonging anywhere near your other gear, to be honest - dog poop floating in the punch bowl. You need something in the same class of starship as your other tools. Which means.....

    Going "classic". You want a Powermatic 1150-VS or 1150A-VS, or a Powermatic 1200. Or - the 1150/1150A with 3ph and a VFD to manage the speeds.

    You can find them, in good to VG shape, fairly regularly. You can go to owwm.org - Old Woodworking Machines, and ask around - all those guys allow is talk about American Old Arn. That's where I got my 1150A-VS - a beauty from early 80's. They have 'em. They love 'em. They restore 'em.

    There simply is not, to my knowledge, a world class modern woodworking DP made today. You need to go to machinist's grade stuff instead.

    Second:

    And please, understand that this is high praise in these here parts:


    You Suck - Bill Murray.jpg

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    I can think of two instances where you might need a tilting table. Some odd angles on chairs, and louver doors. I could rig the louver doors easy enough on a flxed table....for chairs the tilting table may be handy. But for almost everything else I encounter....I'd buy a domino XL. I'm using one at work and cant say I really want a slot mortiser at all. It handles all but the very biggest of mortises, set up is super fast, a slot mortiser takes up a fair amount of real estate in the shop, the domino almost none. Pretty sure I could jig that up to do angled mortises too should the need arise.

    Another for the list to consider.......http://www.atlanticmach.com/standard/Griggio_TRC_N.pdf
    The Griggio is a nice machine. As a matter of fact Griggio makes the mortiser for Martin, the only difference I can see is the color of the paint.

  11. #11
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    Regarding true mortise and tenons....slot mortiser and domino are equivalent. The domino punches the same slots as a slot mortiser, just that you bring the tool to the work. Punch slots on stiles, nothing stopping you from milling true tenons on rails. We just got the smallest cutter for the XL which IIR is 8mm, so around 3/8", perfect for 1" face frame work, I actually like the bigger domino better in every way than the smaller one. I though the big one would be akward on small parts, but it's actually very stable given the longer fence and increased mass. We originally got it for a batch of curved entry doors, we wayed all the options, slot mortiser with dowel bar versus bridge port versus domino. The domino won due to space and flexibility. I have a fixed table slot mortiser in my home shop, would trade it in an instant for a domino XL. It's really a game changer in my mind.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Murphy View Post
    ....As a matter of fact Griggio makes the mortiser for Martin, the only difference I can see is the color of the paint.
    At the Vegas show, a gentleman with the US dealership that handles Griggio told me that you can tell the difference between the actual in house-made Martin machines and the ones they buy from Griggio, if in doubt, by the color. It's a slightly different shade of teal (or whatever they call it) between Griggio and Martin. Apparently, that's the closest color poweder coat they get. If you looked at them side by side, you could indeed tell. Thought that was funny.

    I think most folks would be surprised at how many European mfrs. don't actually make their own stuff. Instead, they just buy it frome someone else and re-brand it. Just like I think many folks would be surprised at how many "100% made in Europe" machines are actually made 90% in China. Not that any of that necessarily matters as long as folks realize that they sometimes could be paying Lexus prices for Toyota vehicles or Jaguar prices for Ford vehicles. Just my 2-cents as always.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  13. #13
    Its this thought process that makes it so hard to pull the trigger either way.

    I guess I'm crazy to not start with the Domino XL. being a avid Festool user its kinda just weird i don't own one to date.mit would save me $1500-$2000k and fact i would use it for work all the time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    Regarding true mortise and tenons....slot mortiser and domino are equivalent. The domino punches the same slots as a slot mortiser, just that you bring the tool to the work. Punch slots on stiles, nothing stopping you from milling true tenons on rails. We just got the smallest cutter for the XL which IIR is 8mm, so around 3/8", perfect for 1" face frame work, I actually like the bigger domino better in every way than the smaller one. I though the big one would be akward on small parts, but it's actually very stable given the longer fence and increased mass. We originally got it for a batch of curved entry doors, we wayed all the options, slot mortiser with dowel bar versus bridge port versus domino. The domino won due to space and flexibility. I have a fixed table slot mortiser in my home shop, would trade it in an instant for a domino XL. It's really a game changer in my mind.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    We originally got it for a batch of curved entry doors, we wayed all the options, slot mortiser with dowel bar versus bridge port versus domino. The domino won due to space and flexibility. I have a fixed table slot mortiser in my home shop, would trade it in an instant for a domino XL. It's really a game changer in my mind.
    How big were the mortises you cut in the entry doors? With my slot mortiser I can mill 5/8" slots 4"+ deep, which on some doors are still on the smallish side. I didn't think the Domino could do tenons in that range but admit I haven't looked too closely at the new "bigger version".

    JeffD

  15. #15
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    I have run a Felder 250 for years. Nice machine but large 1/2"+ mortises of any volume can kind of beat you to death in hardwood. I bought a used Bacci and much prefer it.DSCN2803.jpgDSCN2804.jpg Leaning over the Felder and operating the joystick gives me back problems but that may be unique to me. You do need to develop a touch to keep the long grain and end grain mortises exactly the same diameter, or use a rasp to finesse one. Dave

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