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Thread: Home- made bora care & timbor

  1. Hello folks,
    I have followed the instructions to make the product that uses Boric Acid , Borax, And propylene glycol.
    The glycol was a bit syrupy....and I didn't expect that. the resultant product was also syrupy....But that is the way it is.
    i added water (50%) as suggested and sprayed it on a beam that needed some dry rot control. I drilled holes in the beam and squirted the liquid in.
    I waited for the stuff to dry and now I need to fill the holes with sawdust mixed with carpenter's glue. Then I am ready to paint when that is dried and sanded level.
    But I have noticed the termite/borer/ wood rot liquid has dried a clear film over the previously painted beam and is shiny.
    I wonder if painting over it will be a problem down the road. Should a person beware of anything? Any experience with this from any users? Allan Speers???
    thanks just send me an email when you have time...I don't always get around to checking all the forums I am registered with.
    my email is raelph5@gmail.com
    Raelph
    Last edited by raelph houghton; 01-10-2017 at 6:27 AM. Reason: clarification

  2. Since I am online this morning, I thought I would give an update one year on. So far the repair job has been positive. Paint over shiny area has held. Filler in the holes has shown no outward problems. Wouldn't know anything had every been wrong with the timber. But I must admit it was quite a bit of work making the product, drillng holes, application, putting in the filler, sanding the excess , and priming painting....but one would have heaps of other work to do to try and make it right if one had tried replacing the timber....and all the possible unexpected problems which might arise.
    So pretty happy with the product made and project finished. Propylene glycol was pretty expensive where I purchased it , but prices are getting better.... and much cheaper than buying Boracare from USA and having to pay for shipping of that product. Borax and Boric acid added expenses that are much higher here in Australia (no 20 Mule Team here)...still cheaper than buying from USA (haven't seen Boracare available in Australia)
    .....All in all a good experience.
    Last edited by raelph houghton; 01-24-2018 at 2:13 PM.

  3. #18
    Does anyone have an opinion on using Zerex Original Green Antifreeze for the glycol in order to reduce environmental impact. I give my shavings to a friend for composting.

  4. I am interested in using regular antifreeze as it is a good bit cheaper and will not require shipping. Does anyone know what percent ethylene glycol it is and if any of the other ingredients are typically going to cause any health risk after fully dried. I added a little antifreeze to my timbor mixture and the boards still seem a little damp 4 days later. I do not see the typical powder reside either. As long as they eventually dry I would think drying slowly would allow for better penetration. Also what about using used antifreeze from a shop. my mechanic said he is glad to supply me. Sure it will be half and Half, but if I heat it and then add the timbor/solubor would it really be such a problem. I mixed a little antifreeze with my timbor that was made with hot tapwater and it seemed to stay mixed together just fine. I did not see any powder settling out even days later

    Thanks

  5. #20
    Talked to my local COOP, and they could get solubor. Ordered a 50 lb bag, and they put it in my truck a while back. Was told to put a pound in a gallon of water, and either roll or spray it on both faces and all edges, ends. The ethylene glycol is to slow the drying to make it sink in a bit better, but not necessary. Also was told to boil the water to make the powder stay suspended.

  6. #21
    Hi Allan & Everyone.

    I know this is a bit of an older post and I thought I would chime in. Allan is it possible to send your updated info? I know it has been a while but it seems that your updates never made it. I have done some further research on Bora-Care (BC) (see here https://patents.google.com/patent/US5645828A) and it seems that this is what they are using:
    60% Glycol - comprised of 48% Ethylene Glycol by weight & 12% PEG 200 (polyethylene glycol) by weight
    40% DOT (Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate)
    While Borax, Boric Acid and DOT are all Borates it seems that DOT is the one Nisus uses in BC because of its better solubility and because it also has the highest concentration of borate(?) Sorry I am not a chemist so I apologize if this is incorrect. So it is not to say that using a mixture of Borax and Boric Acid will not work it just appears that BC prefers DOT as it is the most versatile.
    They do heat the mixtures and also filter before bottling the final concentrate.
    I believe they add a small amount of PEG 200 to help act as a carrier for the DOT to penetrate deeply into the wood.

    I thought I would add this in the hopes that it may help. I am horrible at math! and am wondering if anyone out there could confirm the amounts by weight I would need to make this version of the formula. In other words to make 1 gallon of this Brew how much Ethylene, PEG 200 and DOT do I need to mix?

    Thanks Everyone!

    William

    PS - I have added some paragraphs that I have copied from the Patent that Nisus wrote up about BC. It is a long read so I thought by clipping some of the more important bits may help others to come to their own conclusions.


    https://patents.google.com/patent/US5645828A

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ood_structures

    In a particularly preferred embodiment in accordance with this aspect of the present invention, the aforementioned at least one short chain polyalkylene glycol is polyethylene glycol and is present in an amount of between about 4% and about 23% by weight; the aforementioned at least one short chain alkylene glycol is ethylene glycol and is present in amount of between about 27% and about 76% by weight and the aforementioned glycol soluble boron containing compound is disodium octaborate tetrahydrate and is present in an amount of between about 20% and about 50% by weight. In a more preferred embodiment in accordance with this aspect of the present invention, the polyethylene glycol has an average molecular weight of about 200 and is present in an amount of between about 8% and 15% by weight and more preferably between about 10% and 13% by weight. The ethylene glycol is present in an amount of between about 35% and about 62% and more preferably between about 45% and about 54% by weight. The disodium octaborate tetrahydrate is present in an amount of between about 30% and 50% by weight and more preferably between about 36% and about 45% by weight.

    In accordance with another more preferred embodiment of this aspect of the present invention there is provided a solution including polyethylene glycol in an amount of about 11.9% by weight, ethylene glycol in an amount of about 47.5% by weight, disodium octaborate tetrahydrate is present in an amount of 40.6% by weight and water which is present in an amount up to about 10 times the volume of the combination of the other three ingredients.

    In a most preferred embodiment in accordance with this aspect of the present invention there is provided a composition including polyethylene glycol in an amount of about 11.9% by weight, ethylene glycol in an amount of about 47.5% by weight and disodium octaborate tetrahydrate in an amount of about 40.6% by weight.

    It has been unexpectedly found that the addition of water in a substantial amount to the compositions of the present invention including the glycol soluble boron containing compound, and a mixed glycol solution including at least one short chain polyalkylene glycol and at least one short chain alkylene glycol actually facilitates the deep, complete, and rapid penetration of the boron active ingredient into the treated wood (substrate). This is particularly unexpected in view of the teachings of, for example, Bechgaard which discloses a preferred composition of 40% active ingredient (disodium octaborate tetrahydrate) dissolved in 60% ethylene glycol. According to Bechgaard, the presence of water in combination with the aforementioned composition may be a necessary evil for reducing the viscosity of the resulting composition to allow it to be easily applied to tree derived products.

    Polyethylene glycols and polyethylene glycols having an average molecular weight of about 200 are preferred over polypropylene glycols, polybutylene glycols and glycols having a higher molecular weight because of their generally lower relative viscosity and their general solubility in water. For example, E200 polyethylene glycol has an average viscosity of 187 centistokes at 32 F. and 40 centistokes at 77 F., whereas E300 polyethylene glycol has an average molecular weight of 300 and an average viscosity of 343 centistokes at 32 F. and 69 centistokes at 77 F. Furthermore, E200 is the most hygroscopic of the glycol series just described.

    It is most preferred that polyethylene glycol having an average molecular weight of about 200 be used exclusively. However, the admixture of certain amounts of other average molecular weight polyethylene glycols and, indeed, other polyalkylene glycols is specifically contemplated. Such mixtures may be particularly useful when a particularly porous wood derived substrate is being treated.

    The term "at least one short chain alkylene glycol" is intended to mean an alkylene glycol having a chain length of about 2 to about 4 carbon atoms. These would include, ethylene glycol, propylene glycol and butulene glycol. However, the most preferred compound for use in the present invention is ethylene glycol. Due to the relative volatility of ethylene glycol it may be useful, in accordance with the present invention, to use a mixture of ethylene glycol and one of the other short chain alkylene glycols disclosed herein.

    In accordance with the present invention, the preferred glycol soluble boron containing compounds include disodium octaborate tetrahydrate, the potassium, ammonium, and sodium salts of boric acid, boric acid, "borax" and boric oxide and mixtures thereof. The term borax includes compounds having a general formula of Na2 B4 O7 x H2 O wherein "x" is a whole number from 0 to 10.

    It has been found, however, that a concentration of 500 parts per million (ppm) boron (2400 ppm DOT active) is generally effective for preventing or eradicating a broad spectrum of infestation. This is approximately the amount of boron provided by a solution comprising polyethylene glycol in an amount of about 11.9% by weight ethylene glycol in an amount of about 47.5% by weight and disodium octaborate tetrahydrate present in an amount of 40.6% by weight when diluted 1:1 by volume with water when applied to a 6"12" board, having a density of about 30 lbs/cu.ft. and a moisture content of about 15%. (Application is to each side of the board, including the ends, until the point of run-off.)

    In accordance with the present invention, the at least one short chain alkylene glycol may be provided in an amount of between about 27% and about 76% by weight of the undiluted formulation, and more preferably between about 35% and about 62% by weight thereof. In a more preferred embodiment in accordance with the present invention, the alkylene glycol is present in an amount of about 45% to about 54% by weight of the undiluted formulation and most preferably, the amount of alkylene glycol useful in accordance with the present invention is about 47.5% by weight of the undiluted formulation.

    More preferably, the mixed glycols are present in an amount of between about 6.5 and 10 parts per part boron provided as a glycol soluble boron containing composition. In a particularly preferred embodiment in accordance with this aspect of the present invention, the polyalkylene glycol is a polyethylene glycol having an average molecular weight of about 200, the alkylene glycol is ethylene glycol and the amount of boron contained in the composition is about 1 part per 7.12 parts of the mixed glycols and the ratio of the polyethylene glycol to the ethylene glycol is about 1:4. In a preferred embodiment in accordance with the present invention the undiluted composition should include between about 4.0 and 10.5% boron and in a most preferred embodiment, the composition should include about 8.32% boron by weight.

    In general, the undiluted formulations of the present invention can be made by both batch and continuous processes. One method of manufacturing the compositions in accordance with the present invention includes the steps of providing an amount of at least one short chain polyalkylene glycol and at least one short chain alkylene glycol and charging these glycols to a sealable vessel; agitating the mixed glycols and, preferably, raising the temperature thereof. The glycol soluble boron containing compound is then added to the vessel under sufficient agitation to break up all lumps such that a homogeneous mixture is formed. The temperature of the mixture is then raised to between approximately 160 and 180 F. with agitation. Finally, the solution is removed from the vessel and filtered.

    In a preferred embodiment in accordance with the above described method, the short chain polyalkylene glycol is polyethylene glycol having an average molecular weight of about 200 and is present in an amount of between about 8% and 15% and more preferably 10% and 13% by weight based on the weight of the undiluted composition; that is based on the combined weight of the short chain polyalkylene glycol, short chain alkylene glycol and the glycol soluble boron containing composition. The short chain alkylene glycol is preferably ethylene glycol present in an amount of between about 35% and 62% and more preferably between about 45% and 54% by weight based on the weight of the undiluted composition. The glycol soluble boron containing composition is preferably disodium octaborate tetrahydrate present in an amount of between about 30% and 50% and more preferably in an amount of between about 36% and 45% by weight, based on the weight of the undiluted composition. Furthermore, in accordance with a preferred embodiment of this method, the amount of water provided ranges from between about 0.50 and 5 times the volume of the other three ingredients; namely, the polyethylene glycol, alkylene glycol and glycol soluble boron containing active ingredients and, more preferably between about 1 and 4 times the volume of the other three ingredients.

    Therefore, a preferred composition in accordance with the present invention includes between about 6.90% and about 3.05% polyethylene glycol, between about 27.54% and about 12.19% ethylene glycol, between about 23.54% and about 10.40% disodium octaborate tetrahydrate, and between about 42.01% and about 74.35% water by weight based upon the total weight of the composition.

    The formulation diluted in accordance with Table I included about 11.9% by weight polyethylene glycol having an average molecular weight of about 200 (PEG 200), ethylene glycol in an amount of about 47.5% by weight (EG), and disodium octaborate tetrahydrate in an amount of about 40.6% by weight (DOT). All weights reflect the undiluted formulation. % EBC is the % of equivalent boron content by weight.

    In all of the foregoing, it is particularly advantageous to use a formulation comprising polyalkylene glycol having an average molecular weight of about 200 present in an amount of about 6.90%, ethylene glycol present in an amount of about 27.54%, disodium octaborate tetrahydrate present in an amount of 23.54%, and water present in an amount of about 42.01% by weight, based on the total weight of the composition diluted 1:1 with water. Formulations diluted with 2-4 volumes of water may also be particularly useful.





  7. Can I review something. when applying Bora Care (homemade of course) raw timber is noted.
    However, somewhere I seem to have read that Bora Care can penetrate paint. IS THAT TRUE????
    THANKS

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