One possible future role for the track saw: cutting and edging granite

[rudy de haas]

I just read all 96 or so responses to Jim Dwight's thread on Why serious Woodworkers need tracksaws - and one thing occured to me that is completely missing from that discussion - hence the new thread.

Several years ago one of my neighbors tried a DIY granite countertop installation - and the main reason it wasn't the success his wife (who is very loyal to him) makes it out to be is that he could not cut it straight with the tools he had. On the last cut (about 4 feet) I helped - by taking the diamond blade off a tile saw, botching it onto my skillsaw arbor, using an improvised track, and having him pour water on the blade at the point of entry to the granite while I cut.

With that in mind it's easy to imagine some tool company making a kit enabling the track saw user to cut granite - along with a router that runs on the same track to do edging. Right now the average woodworker making his zillionth set of kitchen cabinets can't lift a 114 x 84 x 1.25 inch granite sheet onto a table saw for cutting or rout the edges either, but if a track kit would let him do that with the sheet laid out on 2 x 4s I think many would want to, because there are lots of financial and design opportunities in doing so.

Think of it this way: right now decent granite slabs run 20-30 sq ft - but counter-tops run 50-80 sq ft and those beautiful astragal profiles you designed into the cabinetry? The home owner choices from the granite guy are half round or chamfer.

[ian maybury]

Don't know how feasible it might be as matters stand - but the principle could well be good. (don't know what cutting granite is like) A track saw knee deep in cooling water might not be the best. There's also a major health and safety issue - breathing fine silicate dust from con saws (and presumably granite) is so far as I know very unhealthy...

[Buck Williams]

I've used a track saw and a diamond blade to cut soapstone, EZ-Smart with a Makita circular saw, worked well. Soapstone is much softer than granite, and doesn't require a wet cut, that as Ian said would be the main issue.

[Erik Christensen]

I have done some edging and finishing of concrete counter tops and learned that compared to wood, the stone/concrete tooling is expensive. You also have to have water cooling and therefore a tool that is OK in a VERY wet environment. My 3/4" radius round-over diamond bit that goes on my wet grinder cost ~ $180 and the supplier said it was good for 50-75 feet of use - so you want to do a 30' run of edging top & bottom you burn up your bit on that single job. Depending on the profile local slab yards here charge 15-30$/running foot for edge treatment and it seems that a good 10-25% is pure tooling wear. In addition many are moving to CNC systems so book matched slabs with full edge miters are possible. I will tweak up a concrete pour with wet tooling but trying to mimic slab yard fabrication in a home shop is not something I care to attempt - YMMV.

[Allan Speers]

It's a very good idea, in theory.

The obvious answer, though still difficult to conceptualize, is to modify a stone saw / grinder to ride on a track base. Heck, this guy cuts granite with a cheap dry grinder & a plastic bag, and it seems to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Cb1cAMc4A

- or maybe rig up a longish base, with an arbor & pulley in front, and a raised "hazardous materials" induction saw as far back as possible, so it has little chance of getting wet internally.

For "after installation" cuts, a powerful vacuum should be able to take care of most of the water, and you could rig a collection system as part the same base.

If you don't want ANY water getting on the floor, maybe one could even (getting nuts now) use something like liquid nitrogen instead of water, in conjunction with a non-fluid lubricant or a diamond blade.

[Mike Goetzke]

I recently built a grill cart/cabinet that had two granite inserts and a granite shelf for the grill. I found a granite remnant for the right price (free) and used my EZ-Smart track with a diamond blade. Worked best if you only cut as deep as the diamond was coated on the blade. This was three passes for 1-1/4" granite. I also had my wife dribble water on the cut to lube and especially keep the dust down. I then used a set of grinding wheels for my angle grinder that is sold to polish the cut edge. Came out great.

Mike

[Sam Murdoch]

I was recently on a job where a soapstone counter top was installed. The crew brought the material to the site - templated and cut the parts off the truck and installed all in one day. Usually stone material tops require a template day and then anywhere from 6 weeks to 12 weeks before they return for the install. This soapstone top process was a revelation.

Anyway - to the point of the thread - the soapstone guys watched me use my Festool track saw to cut scribes on the cabinets and I watched them cut their soapstone with a clamped down straight aluminum straight edge and a Dewalt circular saw. Of course we had to discuss our different tooling and the merits of each. Surprised me to hear them say that the stone dust destroyed the saws pretty quickly and that it was much more economical to buy 4 or 5 Dewalts each year than the more expensive track saws. They had tried out a track saw set up but the tracks took a beating and gummed up with wet stone dust and the saw was short lived so back to the straight edge and "throw away" circular saw.

[Victor Robinson]

This exists in many forms in the stone fabrication industry, though doesn't seem to make it to the average installer and is probably out of place in a large shop that has large machinery for working with slabs.

Here's one. This one does not bevel though.
http://www.rotoblast.com/track_saw_r...w_p/s7-kit.htm

There are other track-based options as well, most in the 1-1.5k range. I'd want a saw that is wet, track-guided, and capable of bevel cuts. Honestly I don't think it would be that hard to take one of the small 4-5" wetsaws and fabricating a base to ride on a Festool or other rail. I was planning on doing just that for an upcoming project with my little Dewalt.

I've heard of people using a diamond blade on their Festool TS55 - that blade has to be imported but there's a US dealer or two that have it. The Festool saw has decent enough dust collection to handle dry cutting, but it would probably burn out the saw pretty quick. Adding water is helpful but then you'd better be plugged into a GFCI cord.

A track saw with decent precision would allow for beveled cuts and therefore, possible onsite fabrication of mitered edges. However, putting mitered edges together requires some pretty decent clamping and reasonably long epoxy cure times to where it probably doesn't make much sense on a job site anyways.

[Gene Takae]

I know of a contractor that has been using Festool tracksaws to cut granite since the saws were introduced in the U.S. While the Festool vacs are fantastic they cannot handle the dust created and the saws take a beating. The company has a bunch of saws that they rotate between using and sending in for overhauling. This use is not covered by the warranty.

[Victor Robinson]

I know of a contractor that has been using Festool tracksaws to cut granite since the saws were introduced in the U.S. While the Festool vacs are fantastic they cannot handle the dust created and the saws take a beating. The company has a bunch of saws that they rotate between using and sending in for overhauling. This use is not covered by the warranty.

They don't bother using them wet though, I assume?

[Jim Dwight]

With respect to routing, the Festool system comes with a router base that rides their track and so does the DeWalt. So if you have a DeWalt or Festool track saw, you can run a router down it's track. It would have the dust issues discussed, however.

I use a cheap angle grinder with an abrasive blade to cut tile. It wouldn't be accurate enough for the edge of a granite slab, however. There are wet circular saws sold to cut tile. One could be adapted to run on a track but you would loose some depth capability. Here's a DeWalt:

http://www.zoro.com/dewalt-masonry-s...g&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Brad Seubert]

I picked up a diamond blade for my makita and used it to do the soapstone counters in my kitchen. Worked great. With the vac hooked up I am able to cut them in the house with almost no dust.

Photo Feb 14, 11 20 22 AM.jpg

Photo Feb 15, 3 39 14 PM.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

Jim

That saw looks like the one I saw in use at the granite yard. I never knew you could could cut granite with a circular saw until that day. He didn't use any straight edge. Painted a line with a marker and cut it. It was pretty cool to watch.

Rudy

I can see your point, and interesting concept for extending the use of a track saw, but a full slab of granite is heavy, very heavy. I'm not certain there are many people set up to handle a full sheet of granite. Remnants definitely, but a whole sheet is another story. If you have the ability to handle full sheets though, I say give it a go.
Cutting the straight lines will be the easiest. It's the circles and ovals, for sink cutouts that I think would hold me back. Our center Island cooktop has tortoise shell shaped ends, and I don't think I could have cut those. It was hard enough making an accurate template for the island top out of plywood. (I made the templates, full size, for our kitchen and bath counters.)
As for the profiles, the place I used could put just about any edge profile, within reason, on a granite slab. Mine are simple 1/8" round overs.

The guy that did our granite counters said that drilling the holes for faucets was actually the hardest part, because the bit wants to walk.


Brad
That's some nice work!! How did you do the sink cutout?

[Brad Seubert]

Brad
That's some nice work!! How did you do the sink cutout?[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Its a rectangle sink so it was pretty easy to cut with the tracksaw. There is a seam right in the center of the sink do it was easy to lay the piece over the sink and reach under and mark it. I drilled a hole in each corner (1/2" i think) then connected the dots with the track saw and finished up the corner with a jig saw.

The seam in the center is almost invisible.
Photo Feb 15, 3 38 44 PM.jpg

[Jim German]

Festool makes a tracksaw designed for concrete and tile, I suppose it would work for granite too. Its a dry saw, but they claim their dust extrators remove all the dust so its not an issue. Its not avalible in the US though. http://www.festool.com.au/epages/too...roducts/768993