Question: Freud blade upgrade on SawStop

[Casey Reames]

Warning: This post turned out longer than initially intended. I apologize in advance. If you get bored three lines in, just skip to the last paragraph. That's where the actual question is located. If I didn't give enough info or asked too many questions, again, I apologize.

Hey everyone, this is my first time posting on here. I've been browsing the site for years and have always found answers to my questions, so I've never really needed to post anything. However, I have a question regarding an "upgrade" I made today, and can't find any info on my inquiry.

First off, I just upgraded from using a Shopsmith as a table saw to a 3hp 52" SawStop PCS. Seriously....a dream come true. I've always seen pictures of these awesome cabinet saws (all major brands included), seen them in stores, heard fairy tales their abilities, and always thought, "sure wish I could have one of those someday." Well, that someday was two weekends ago. I finally just held my breath, closed my eyes, and swiped my wife's debit card. Haha. Just kidding.....kinda.

So, I was completely impressed with the way it ran, the way it cut, how smooth everything was. I thought the blade included with the saw had to be the best blade on the market. It worked great! Then I started reading. I found out that most people consider those blades to be "junk blades", and even heard a guy say they were specifically designed to knick hotdogs and drive into aluminum brakes.( Haha. Funny guy!) I read that a top notch blade can make a significant difference, amd how impressed you will be at the saws improvement.

To to make a long story longer, I decided on a 10" Freud 50 tooth full kerf combo blade model LU84R011. I got it home, put it on, and fired it up. Instantly I noticed that the saw was louder. The blade it's self was louder, but also the saw. Putting my hand on the table, I noticed quite a bit more vibration than with the supplied "junk" blade. Is this normal? The supplied blade is a 40 tooth combo blade, this is a 50 tooth. I also noticed that the Freud was heavier while swapping them out. Could the increased number of teeth cause more vibration? Could the increased weight cause it? Did I get a bad blade? Any help or advise would be appreciated. Also, the reason for going with the Freud over the Forrest WW2 was the salesman at woodcraft. He told me that on some saws you can tell a difference. But on a SawStop, they're built so solid, there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the two. So, I opted for the blade that was $50 cheaper. Did I make a mistake? It seems to cut decently, but I wasn't impressed, per say. Honestly, I didn't notice much of a difference between the free blade and the blade I just paid $80 for. Am I missing something?

Thank you anyone and everyone for any help or advise you can give. I truly appreciate it.

[glenn bradley]

I would swap back and forth a couple time and get some real repeated empirical test results; carefully compare the vibration to assure it is there and not just the influence of the sound difference. If the vibration is greater there is a problem with the blade and it should be replaced. If the vibration is very close to the same, read on ;-)

My Saw Stop blade is on the wall as a decoration. I currently run Carbide processors blades but, have run Freud, Amana, Lietz and Forrest in the past. Any of these blades when brand new should cut impressively. If the new Freud is behaving worse than your factory cutter, there is a problem. My Saw Stop was nearly perfect as far as alignment goes. There was a slight correction to the table alignment which many people would have probably not bothered with. If your alignment is good, the Freud should cut extremely smooth. If it does not and the factory blade does, I would exchange the Freud.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't use the SawStop blade but I have used it and it was not a bad blade. I had a bunch of blades from my previous saw so I mostly use those.

By the way, just in case you encounter this issue: I had a problem when I had a cartridge pop. When I replaced the cartridge the saw would not start. After working with SS, it turned out that my riving knife was too close to the blade. Apparently, the software is in the cartridge and they update it - meaning a new cartridge will have new software. The new cartridge caused the saw to be more sensitive to the position of the riving knife. I had the saw for 6 or more years before I popped the cartridge so there was lots of time for software upgrades.

Mike

[David Ragan]

I used the original one-no issues. I normally use WWII, and of course, no problems--except I have assumed that all 10" blades were the same diameter. They aren't. I have popped a cartridge with that assumption on a Sears plywood blade.

You can easily make a feeler gage:

DSCN0445.jpg

Now, I always use the above whenever putting any blade on. $60 per cartridge, right?

Dimension of biz end of above the same as the recommended (nickel?) in the manual.....Nickels are good, though to run on your bandsaw to see if it will stand up on end (not having excessive vibration). Happily, the MM-16 passed.

Much of life is empirical, as Glen has said. I am not sure if the nickel test is appropriate with the SS-probably not sensitive enough.

Sounds like a bad blade, though.

[Casey Reames]

Great advise from all. Today, time permitting, I'll swap back and forth and see if I can feel a difference in blades. I may even set a bowl of water on the saw, so I can actually see the vibration. I know that's not exactly scientific, but I'm wondering if I can't get over the sound difference, so I think I feel more vibration. Ya know?! I actually did the nickle on edge test, and it stayed upright. So I set my phone on edge with the nickle and blade in view and ran a 2" thick piece of ash scrap through it. Again, the nickle stayed in edge. But....when I watched the video, the phone was vibrating so much it almost looked like there were 2 nickels. I watched a previous video and this wasn't the case. I'll just need to spend some time on it. If I think there's a problem, I'll take it to Woodcraft and have them out it on their saw. If it vibrated more than normal, it will make for a hassle free return.

Also, great advise on the cartridge update. These are things I would have never considered. And blade diameter.....didn't think of that either. I went out and looked this morning while having some coffee, and it looks like the riving knife has a little larger gap than before. Once I get this blade thing sorted out and settle on one, it's looking like it's time for some adjustments.

Has as anyone ever used the truing blade? The steel disk for making sure the miter slots are square with the blade? I'm having a suspicion that mine a few thousandths off. Now I'm not saying I'm a perfectionist....I just want everything to be perfect.

Thanks for for the replies guys.

[Larry Frank]

I use Freud blades all the time on my Sawstop with no issues. I do not notice any noise.

If it were me, I would check the blade and figure out if the blade is not flat or bent. With the money you spent on the saw getting a dial indicator to check out the saw, any new saw, is worthwhile. You should check to be certain the blade, miter gauge slot and fence are properly aligned.

IMHO it is important with any new tool to check alignment and everything else such as lose parts. It is a good way to learn about it and make certain it is working properly.

When I got my PCS, I checked it out thoroughly and did not find any issues but that is OK as it was time well spent.

I do not think I would put a bowl of water on my shiny new saw.

[Casey Reames]

I agree, I'm going to give the whole thing the old once over. And, the bowl was a big Tupperware type bowl, with just a little water in it. I was very careful.

[scott spencer]

If the blade is the only variable in play and everything else on the saw is good, it sounds like you got a blade that's not quite right. I'd exchange or return it.

[Kent Adams]

I would swap back and forth a couple time and get some real repeated empirical test results; carefully compare the vibration to assure it is there and not just the influence of the sound difference. If the vibration is greater there is a problem with the blade and it should be replaced. If the vibration is very close to the same, read on ;-)

My Saw Stop blade is on the wall as a decoration. I currently run Carbide processors blades but, have run Freud, Amana, Lietz and Forrest in the past. Any of these blades when brand new should cut impressively. If the new Freud is behaving worse than your factory cutter, there is a problem. My Saw Stop was nearly perfect as far as alignment goes. There was a slight correction to the table alignment which many people would have probably not bothered with. If your alignment is good, the Freud should cut extremely smooth. If it does not and the factory blade does, I would exchange the Freud.

Can you tell me what you mean by "Carbide Processors". I have a WWII and I thought the teeth were welded carbide?

[Prashun Patel]

I have a Sawstop 3hp. No issues whatsoever with swapping blades and vibration. I suggest you get a Freud 24t ripping blade (something you may want anyway) from HD and test it.

[Casey Reames]

I second that.

[Casey Reames]

Aren't the Freud Diablo blades HD sells all thin kerf? I was there the other day, and it looked like they were all thin.

[glenn bradley]

You can easily make a feeler gage:

DSCN0445.jpg

Doesn't Saw Stop include the little plastic gauge with the magnet in it anymore?

saw stop gauge.PNG

I use mine whenever I change blades. Like David said, I can take a second to check for the $60 it might cost me

[Casey Reames]

Yeah, mine had that little yellow gauge.

[Dan Hahr]

I have that 50 tooth blade and it did run louder. Smooth as silk but definitely louder.
Dan