Experiences with northern white cedar (for pergola)?

[Ken Platt]

Folks -

I want to make a very basic pergola-type structure to hold a canopy for shade on my deck. The design is simple, all 4x4, 4 posts, 4 beams, and some corner supports. A picture can be seen here:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...52&cat=51&ap=1

on the top right. I am also planning to use the canopy on that page.

I have been planning to use white cedar, since it's semi-local (I am in CT), supposed to be rot resistant, and, perhaps most important of all - LIGHT. The plan is for this to be a knock-down design, with disassembly each fall to clear the deck for ease of snow removal. I also like the color.

I've been calling around for prices, and one of the dealers today said his experience with white cedar was that it warped and checked badly so that he thought it was not good for a pergola. He suggested western red or alaska yellow cedar instead.

The cost isn't really relevant, but at the moment the prices I have are, for 4 x 4 eight footers, white cedar $17, red cedar $26. I fully realize the real cost of these things isn't in the wood price.

So, if folks would share their experiences with whatever wood they've used for this sort of project, I'd be appreciative.

Ken

[Matt Krusen]

I asked a similar question not too long ago in regards to an outdoor farmhouse style table. Northern White is rot resistant but Western Red is supposedly more so. I was told Northern White Cedar is somewhat of a lower grade lumber in general. I went with Western Red Cedar and couldn't be happier. No actual experience with the Northern White but thought I'd pass along what I was told.

[peter gagliardi]

I think you will be fine, if you google Cedarworks play sets, you will see they have built a pretty successful business using only white cedar.
I wish I had a source for the material, I would love to build my kids a great play set.

[Mel Fulks]

Don't think I've seen any white cedar. Can you easily discern sap wood the way you can with WR cedar?
For your purpose I think avoiding sap wood is more important than species. I like pergolas and such myself,think you will
probably need some side shade from more fabric or lattice .

[John D Watson]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...5&d=1175357317
Hey Ken, I made this door from what was a pergala that stood for about 35 years. easy wood to work with as long as its dry and will last for a very long time. The old rail fences on farms and some front yards in the country are made from these trees. In our area there are many over a hundred years old. I would jump on that white in a shot. love the stuff.

[Sam Murdoch]

I recently used it to build an out door show in coastal Maine. White cedar has been a favorite small boat wood for forever. However, unless you can go somewhere to hand pick it, I would order more wood than than you need so that you can cull through your pile for the best pieces. That might mean buying an extra post too. Ideally you will be getting lumber cut last season and/or kiln dried though I don't know that you can purchase kiln dried white cedar. Don't buy wet lumber unless you are willing to let it dry through the year before you use it.

If you can permanently locate the 4 base corners with poured concrete posts (add some flowery or rocky decoration around the bases) I think you will get a more stable structure and this will allow you to set the cedar posts into some stand offs that are bolted to the concrete. These stand offs fastened to the bottom of your cedar posts will locate the 4 corners and securely hold the assembly from being blown over or knocked around. Most importantly the stand offs will keep the posts end grain from sitting on the ground. With or without the stand offs though I would certainly saturate the end grain of the cedar posts with epoxy (2 coats with drying in between). This will seal off the end grain to prevent moisture penetration and add years to the life of your pergola.

White cedar is a pleasure to use. Enjoy.

[Ethan Melad]

Our pergola is built with white cedar (i'm in MA) and its holding up fine. We also have white cedar decking, which is doing fine as well, despite the crappy install by our contractor. I'd definitely get the highest grade available, and hand pick your boards- our contractor did not, and our decking has a good amount of small knots which have popped and are sharp underfoot. I have noticed some cupping and minor checking of the boards installed flat as the top of the deck railing.

[Bill Adamsen]

There are several "White Cedar" species and they are different woods taxonomically, however, remarkably similar in many respects physically. Both types of "White Cedar" are being harvested from second growth stocks and are smaller trees than the huge tight-grained old-growth Red Cedar. Northern White cedar is commonly referred to as "Arborvitae", and as you might imagine, one limitation is that it doesn't grow very large and produce larger timber. It is likely to have many small knots, not unlike Eastern Red Cedar which is another species altogether - Juniper. As Ethan indicated, those would pop and cause trouble as a decking. Northern White Cedar is very light, and a choice in boatbuilding where strength isn't critical, and one is looking to meet volume requirements at the lowest weight possible. I used to get requests to build the floorboards of Blue Jay racing sailboats out of Northern White Cedar by folks who were committed to sailing the lightest boat possible and didn't care if the floorboards offered any structure (class had a thickness requirement only). What Sam says is absolutely true of any wood - but especially Northern White. You would need to pick through.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/atlantic-white-cedar/
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...n-white-cedar/

The weathered color is perhaps the most important distinction. If left untreated, White cedars turn grey, Red Cedar turns black. So matching what is already there - or what you expect to have - might be an important part of the decisioning.

Very cool canopy idea, thanks for sharing.

[Chris Padilla]

I built a gate from Western Red Cedar. I loved the smell in the shop while milling it. Keep in mind that cedar is soft...it'll dent if you look at it funny.

[Erik Manchester]

Eastern White Cedar is slightly more rot resistant than the Western Red but not as easy to get clear eastern cedar in large sizes unlike red which is readily available.

Cedar is abrasive to edged tools, despite being a soft wood, and many people find sinus irritation or allergic reaction to the dust when milling so make certain to wear a quality dust mask and use a dust collector when you prepare your materials.

[Ken Platt]

Thanks, folks. I'm going to make a run up to a mill in southern VT to get my white cedar. I'll take the advice to get some extra. I won't be able to wait for it to dry more than a few weeks, though, so that may cause problems.

There won't be much joinery. I purchased some hardware for the top corners which holds together two beams and the post. I was going to make some corner supports out of the same 4x4 wood, and attach it to the beam/post with some sort of mortise/tenon, the details of which are still being formulated. As I'd mentioned, it'll be disassembled every year, so the M & T will just be fitted and held together with a bolt going through, hopefully draw-bored a bit to sort of pull stuff together.

Anyhow, at this point I'm looking forward to working with the white cedar.

Ken