Close-Up and Personal Look at the NEW Lie-Nielsen Stainless Steel Honing Guide.

[Karl Fife]

I just returned from the Lie Nielsen Hand tool event in Chicago.
While I was there, I saw the much anticipated Lie Nielsen Stainless honing guide.
I took some pictures which I have shared below.
Some of this you've seen, other details perhaps not.

Noteworthy observations:

1. It appears that there are two different 'regular' jaws (pictured below). One has a deeper beveled cut. I'm guessing one of these may be optimized to receive bevel-edge chisels, the other set for thinner plane blades. Maybe. I think. On the other hand, looking them over, I can't think of anything the shallower one can do that the deeper one cant. Vise versa for that matter.

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2. All of the optional jaws I could find are shown here. They include left & right skew jaws, the two 'regular' jaws described above, the 'long jaws' for short blades of shoulder planes, spoke-shaves, plow planes etc., and finally the 'tall' jaws for mortise chisels. I have heard rumors about jaws to hold the round shank of the LN fishtail chisel, but I see nothing to that effect here. Come to think of it, that's why I bought Dave Jeske's Blue Spruce Fishtail Chisel. Fits nicely in a honing guide. Man, I love that Blue Spruce Fishtail chisel.

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3. The most anticipated feature of this jig (by me) is the long jaw. This will serve my shoulder plane blades and spoke-shave blades beautifully. EVENTUALLY it may even serve the needs of a LIE NIELSEN PLOW PLANE blade beautifully as well :-), hopefully someday. Currently I use a Veritas jig for shave blades, but I find it is slower to set up and is not as repeatable as other jigs in my personal experience. I have a Richard Kell jig I use for shoulder plane blades, but I suspect I'll use this new LN jig instead because I really don't like cleaning the grit from two large HDPE wheels when moving the kell jig from stone to stone.

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4. Finally, the Tall jaw. What's important here is that it's able to receive the tall Ray Iles 'pig sticker' mortise chisel, not just the shallower Lie Nielsen 'sash mortise chisels'. I was concerned that the tall jaw would not be deep enough. You can see that the chisel is projecting way beyond the point of exceeding the angle of the primary bevel. Beyond good enough. Currently I use the richard Kell jig for this purpose, but again, I suspect I'll use the LN jig instead because did I mention that I don't like cleaning the grit from the HDPE wheels when moving from stone to stone? Sorry, I meant to.

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5. Swapping jaws is fast and precise, but I suspect that some people will opt to buy multiple jigs (say 2), and spend less time switching jaws. Just a hunch.

Also, I happen to know exactly when when this will be released.
Would you like me to say?
OK.
It will be released...
When you pry it from my cold dead hand :-)
(released by my hand, that is)

I have no earthly idea when it will be available for sale by LN. The rep wouldn't say, even after enticing him with beer and women. Give that man a raise!
I think there was a saying "Loose lips; Tom flips!" Something like that. I can't quite remember how it goes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Wow, thanks for the excellent pics. Great review. I am sorry to say I don't like that tiny wheel. If honing a narrow chisel it seems this tool would be difficult to keep from rocking side to side. It does look like it's going to be great for skew registration and for spokeshave blades.

Did they have the plow plane? Were they as tight-lipped about release dates on it? I hope they know my patience is just about gone.

[Hilton Ralphs]

It all looks a bit fiddly to me. This is 2015 and yet they still chose to use slotted head machine screws instead of something better like Hex or Torx or even Phillips. Nothing is worse than trying to line up the slot when your eyesight isn't what it used to be. Everyone has at least a few hex drivers.

I hate to think what the price will be of course.

[Jim Koepke]

I hate to think what the price will be of course.

The cost is my first question.

Hilton,
Your tag line might be one reason for the flat drive and why "Torx or even Phillips" may be out. People may have a set of allen wrenches, many don't. The problem is in many parts of the world people may have imperial sets or they have metric sets. Well most of the world has metric. Even some Phillips style screws and drivers are different.

A flat driver may be the most universal driver available.

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

Perhaps Jim but we're talking about a premium jig here and I seriously doubt anyone who buys the LN range of stuff doesn't have at least a Phillips driver.

Even so, how difficult is it to ship a hex driver? INCRA does that for their table saw and router table fences.

I believe most people just do what they did before and what was done before that and not actually sit back and think about what may be a better plan.

Still holding my breath on the price though.

[David Eisenhauer]

Agreed, When will slotted screws die away? It is well past time for this to occur.

David

[Daniel Rode]

It looks like a precision version of an eclipse guide. Same basis design but better engineered and manufactured. The thing I like about the eclipse style guides is the cost. I sharpen almost entirely by hand now, so the LN guide won't be on my birthday list in any case.

[david charlesworth]

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Daniel Rode]

This is why the eclipse guide and all it's copies were so popular. Also, I'm not convinced slotted screws are inferior. I can find much fault with phillips and square drive heads as well. Can't work those with a butter knife, can you?

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Derek Cohen]

The Eclipse is a great little guide. The decision of LN to build on its design is a good one. The LV is also an excellent guide, but not as easy to set up for a straight blade. The LV does have advantages over other jigs, such as a wide range of blades it will hone, and the ability to set specific angles. (I wonder if the LN will have an angle setter?). The weak area of the Eclipse is the narrow straight wheel for honing narrow blades (in the 1/8" range). I am interested if the LN will manage this area better. That would be my area of use.

The more options that are added in to a jig, the more compromises will end up being made. The beauty of the Eclipse is that it is simple and does just one thing, but does it well. I think that LN know this, and the reason for taking so much time in its development is that they realise that there is much to get right if they plan (as they do) to offer a range of blade options.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

I'm in the camp with David and Daniel. The slotted screws are fine and the narrow wheel allows the user to ease the corners or completely radius a plane's cutting edge.

I too got to handle the honing guide in Chicago and more importantly better understand why it has taken so bloody long to develop. This involved purchasing and installing a new CNC machine and developing jigs, etc., to make each of those jaws with capture screws fit into the base precisely. That done, all that needs to be done is make that happen repeatedly hundreds of times for a first production run. Is it just a fancy Eclipse copy? Yes....from across the room on a cloudy day. What it turns out to actually be is a way to repeatably put a precision edge on almost any Lie-Nielsen bench tool regardless of the blades 's thickness, using a simple projection measurement. An Eclipse guide can't do that because it registers on the bevel side of the cutting blade.

[Simon MacGowen]

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

A narrow roller is a source of pain for those who aren't good at freehand sharpening. If someone is already good at freehand sharpening, this high-end jig is of less use in most, not all, sharpening situations. I learned and opted for freehand sharpening, exactly because I wasn't happy with the narrow roller of the Eclipse jig. This jig is designed for high-end users and from that perspective, the narrow roller feature is understandable.

It is taking so long for this new jig to be brought to the market suggests one thing: trying to meet all your sharpening needs with one jig is quite, if not completely, impossible.

The slotted screw is perfectly fine with me as the lever cap screws are also slotted anyway.

Simon

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All good points being discussed here. As for the slotted screws, there are specific torque ratings for different screw sizes and heads. I suspect that plays a part in the decision to use one over the other. As for Phillips screws, they are designed to torque out at a specific torque range. I would prefer a (properly made) slotted screw on a tool where I wanted to be able to put a bit (small bit) more torque. I am sure they will design it to fit their lovely screwdriver set.

[Karl Fife]

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

I must agree with Mr. Charlesworth on both counts.

In my opinion, the incremental/theoretical benefit of a PH2 or PosiDriv, Torx T-n etc is outweighed by the convenience of using the straight blade screwdriver you just used to disassemble your plane, shave, etc..

Note that in THIS particular application, screwdriver alignment is a non-issue. The LN jig is designed such that the screwdriver blade can not slide off-axis due to the fact that it is completely captive within the countersink/recess in the jaws. This design element is visible in the pictures.

In any case, anyone bothered by it can swap out the captive jaw screws with screws of choice (Fastenal, McMaster etc.). I think those kinds of modifications can be very rewarding. If I were re-working this jig, I'd attempt to use a thumbscrew for a tool-free setup.

With regard to the debate about narrow/wide rollers; even with cambering issues put to the side for a moment, the Kell guide/jig is a good illustration issues that arise with 'wide' rollers. The Kell guide has perhaps widest roller configuration available. It's a very clever guide in many ways, but when a blade is clamped into it, care must be taken to get the angle JUST right or you won't be able to hone the entire edge without removing excess metal. That's not to say it's inherently worse, but I can say that it takes more time and attention to use the Kell guide than the Eclipse guide, even for narrow blades. The Kell is currently the best guide I have for certain things, but at this point I think the LN guide will replace it. I'll keep my Veritas MK.II for skew sharpening. Especially since I modified it to make the angle settings 100.0% bang-on repeatable. As I said, rewarding. Viscerally even.

Cheers all! Thanks for a lively discussion!

[Winton Applegate]

Agreed, When will slotted screws die away? It is well past time for this to occur.

I agree as well but they look classic and fit the existing LN screw drivers (I assume they fit). Again, looks over performance seems to be the modern rule.