Making outdoor sign - Colored wood options. Is there a paint that holds up well?

[Rob Joeseph]

Hi,

I am making a sign for a business. The owner is a friend of mine and I made her own years ago out of pre-colored plastic sheet material. (The specific name escapes me now). I want to make her a new sign but I have better tooling and work ability with wood. I thought of making a wood sign and coloring the letters somehow, either a paint product or dye.

The letters would be 3D and placed on a flat sheet material which would be the 'backboard' or 'canvas' of the sign. Pretty simple sign concept. Here's ideas of it
il_340x270.729442250_su3z.jpg. Saunzee_Go_Green_Signs_Custom_3D_Eco_Friendly_Signs_Recycle_Signs_Old_Weathered_Wood_Signs_Recyc.jpg

I am mainly concerned about weathering, holding up to rain and snow. Her first sign was wooden and didn't last long. She would be pleased if this new sign I'm making would hold up well for a minimum of 5 years. So it brings me to question which adhesives, paint or dye products I should be looking into.

I am also considering spraying the entire sign with a durable clear coat that is best suited to holdup outdoors. Any recommendations is greatly appreciated. I'll consider hand finishing it too.

Also, which wood species should I use is the other question. I imagine using a clear face, clear grained wood which would give the best even color effect but in terms of moisture and movement I'm really not that sure which wood is preferable. Any help here is greatly appreciated too.

I thank you.

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Rob, IMO, for long lasting exterior wood signs Cedar is the best choice, Redwood used to be the best but became too expensive and difficult to find in better grades. The reason for Cedar is its natural resins that give it a resistance to insects and rot, there are some sign supply places that sell Cedar sign blanks or you could order from someone like PerfectPlank.com. For paint, I would avoid stains unless you want to re-stain every year or two, some solid color stains perform reasonably well but good old latex exterior house paint works pretty good and along with a good primer should last for at least 5 years, house paint would probably be your best bet as far as cost and it being easy to find and have quarts mixed to your color specs at any corner paint store or Lowe's or HD, beyond that you can use Enamel sign paint such as "One Shot" which you can find through most sign supply stores, these will be the most expensive but should also last the longest and have more of the bright vibrant colors available. I don't think you would need to clear coat it because there are not many clear coats that will last long outside over latex that I'm aware of. Also, another option to consider if budget allows is HDU, (High Density Urethane) foam board such as Precision Board which lasts forever outside without cracking, chipping or warping like wood can, a bit more expensive though depending on the density, cuts, machines, primes and paints-up like wood.
Hope this helps.

[Rob Joeseph]

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the reply and suggestions. Cedar of course does seem like a good choice because of it's properties. I've seen many signs on google images made out of cedar but they were mostly stained/sealed. I never thought of painting cedar though. I wonder if that would be ok to do that.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Hi Rob, IMO, for long lasting exterior wood signs Cedar is the best choice, Redwood used to be the best but became too expensive and difficult to find in better grades. The reason for Cedar is its natural resins that give it a resistance to insects and rot, there are some sign supply places that sell Cedar sign blanks or you could order from someone like PerfectPlank.com. For paint, I would avoid stains unless you want to re-stain every year or two, some solid color stains perform reasonably well but good old latex exterior house paint works pretty good and along with a good primer should last for at least 5 years, house paint would probably be your best bet as far as cost and it being easy to find and have quarts mixed to your color specs at any corner paint store or Lowe's or HD, beyond that you can use Enamel sign paint such as "One Shot" which you can find through most sign supply stores, these will be the most expensive but should also last the longest and have more of the bright vibrant colors available. I don't think you would need to clear coat it because there are not many clear coats that will last long outside over latex that I'm aware of. Also, another option to consider if budget allows is HDU, (High Density Urethane) foam board such as Precision Board which lasts forever outside without cracking, chipping or warping like wood can, a bit more expensive though depending on the density, cuts, machines, primes and paints-up like wood.
Hope this helps.

Not sure a lot of people would agree with that. HDU definitely isn't the toughest material in the world, even in the 18-20lb variety. HDU definitely can work in a lot of different applications but I think the last thing I'd talk about is how tough it is. Everything else, I agree with.

Cedar is the best low maintenance wood out there. I've heard of people using yellow pine. I have no real opinion on the matter. You can also seriously look at MDO as an option. Sealed properly, it should last over 5 years. A lot of people in the sign industry are moving away from wood into plastics, foams, and metal. My personal suggestion would be 3/4" or thicker PVC. It's tough, paints well, and isn't crazy expensive. For the letters, I'd either do PVC or acrylic. Paint you want exterior acrylic paint. Going to Home Depot or Lowes will probably be your best bet.

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Ross, I've worked with HDU quite a bit and have found that the higher densities are quite strong, we choose density based on the detail and strength required for each specific job, If you've never worked with 30lb or 40lb you might be amazed at how tough it is, certainly tougher than cedar or even some hard woods, 40lb seems nearly as hard and strong as Acrylic, 30lb seems to be more than enough for most needs though. At 30lbs+ priming and painting are much easier also, no extra high fill primer needed. Again, I see the advantage of no warping cracking, it's completely moisture proof, where a wood sign near sprinklers is not an option, HDU will work fine. I've found PVC to have challenges with paint filling the porous edges properly and also it tends to expand and contract a lot more, at least in the desert heat where I live. There are definitely people out there making good use of it every day, if you've never seen Dan Sawatzky's work I would recommend checking it out as an example of someone who uses it successfully every day.
http://www.enroutesoftware.com/ExpertTips

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Example of an HDU sign I did.

[Joe Pelonio]

Good advice from Paul. I have many cedar signs all over the place still looking good after 10+ years, they just need a light pressure wash at times to remove the moss. I always used a good oil based primer first, then One-Shot enamels. Just be sure to price accordingly, it's great paint but not cheap.

[Art Mann]

I prefer to use Versatex or Azek PVC trim board for this type application. It takes paint well and is easy to carve precisely with a CNC router. It is considerably cheaper than HDU if it is suited to the job.

You mentioned you are considering using a clear coat over the product. I have not been able to identify any clear coat spray or brush on material that holds up outside on wood over time.

[Keith Outten]

I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum here in that wood is my last choice for an exterior sign unless it has to be deep carved. I prefer Corian most of the time but I use PVC on occasion. I find that the extra cost of Corian is offset by the lower cost in labor, it will last 50 years in exterior service and does not need a backing piece.

[Rob Joeseph]

I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum here in that wood is my last choice for an exterior sign unless it has to be deep carved. I prefer Corian most of the time but I use PVC on occasion. I find that the extra cost of Corian is offset by the lower cost in labor, it will last 50 years in exterior service and does not need a backing piece.

No Keith, It is I on the opposite end of the Spectrum. Signs made out of PVC/Plastic materials will definitely last longer and are probably the standard.

[Keith Outten]

Paul,

Your Front Street Photo sign is a real beauty. Nice design and the craftsmanship is excellent. The way you worked the lamp into the design is also a nice touch, it looks like its made from steel as does the frame.
.

[Paul Phillips]

Paul,

Your Front Street Photo sign is a real beauty. Nice design and the craftsmanship is excellent. The way you worked the lamp into the design is also a nice touch, it looks like its made from steel as does the frame.
.

Thanks Kieth, it was part of some signs we did for San Diego Zoo so we used their designs, but they did turn out nice, we used Aluminum for the scrollwork frame which I CNC cut and then welded together, the HDU is 2" thick 30lb which I completely carved on my CNC also to give it that hand carved look. Interestingly, I started out in the '80s doing hand carved Redwood signs, Redwood is still the best outdoor wood which is why it's used for decks, but the availability and quality has gone way down and the cost has gone way up. We used to use 2"x12" vertical grain, kiln dried, clear heart wood laminated together and hand drawn, routed and carved, those were the good ol' days!

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

Cedar & brush on a couple of coats of spar varnish.

[Paul Phillips]

Cedar & brush on a couple of coats of spar varnish.

Possibly, depending where your located, and IF you can still get traditional solvent based which is now only sold in quarts and banned in California, he wants it to last 5+ years outside, that would not be my first choice.

[Art Mann]

My opinion is that a good spar varnish formulation will extend the life of the finish from several months to maybe 3 years fully exposed to the weather. To get even that kind of durability, you have to buy premium spar varnish formulated for the boating industry. Minwax and similar consumer brands are not much better than just straight polyurethane. I am basing this opinion on my experience with a bunch of Adirondak chairs I manufactured out of Cypress. The ones I used Minwax spar varnish on were placed up under a North facing porch where they got zero direct sunlight and were protected from all but strong blowing rains.They started looking shabby and cracking and peeling in under a year.

[Rob Joeseph]

My opinion is that a good spar varnish formulation will extend the life of the finish from several months to maybe 3 years fully exposed to the weather. To get even that kind of durability, you have to buy premium spar varnish formulated for the boating industry. Minwax and similar consumer brands are not much better than just straight polyurethane. I am basing this opinion on my experience with a bunch of Adirondak chairs I manufactured out of Cypress. The ones I used Minwax spar varnish on were placed up under a North facing porch where they got zero direct sunlight and were protected from all but strong blowing rains.They started looking shabby and cracking and peeling in under a year.

I would agree about the Marine varnish for boats being the most durable. I never worked with them on regular projects, I imagine they are more costly and difficult to source.

My whole idea was to encapsulate the wooden letters with the paint and have it sealed fully but I still wonder about the moisture trapped inside the wood itself and I know some paints like acrylic, when painted on wood will actually breathe. The enamel paints seem like the most promising paint finish but I just found a website here that sells MDO letters rated for outdoors painted with "automotive grade paint". I wonder what type of pain that is, do they mean actual automotive paint or an enamel? http://www.woodlandmanufacturing.com...d-wood-letters

The last sign I made I used pre-colored PVC board or Acrylite board. I had the pieces cut and them assembled them with a pvc glue. I might reconsider doing this option again too.

If I did go with wooden or MDO painted letters I wonder what would be the best option for the backing board and how to adhere it.